Robson Finkenmeister

[the great gonzo]

Matt, sorry about that, I hope you are not too mad .
The way Robert explained it to me he called the dealer in Oregon on Wednesday and informed them on the shipping quote and they then declined and apparently said they were not interested in getting it at that shipping rate, which was why he offered it to me in the first place.
Maybe there was some kind of a misunderstanding between Robert and your dealer?
He only told me that when I met him at the airport in Toronto. He also said that he is trying to work something out with the dealer in Oregon to ship a whole batch of different boats out there, which would make freight more reasonable.
I am really sorry that this ruined your birthday, but trust me, I would not have taken the boat if he had not told me that the dealer in Oregon had declined.
Robert also told me that he is in the US, particularly out west, fairly often and that he has several times taken boats with him, so maybe if youcontact him directly, you will be able to work out something. His e-mail is: robson@t-online.de

martin

If you are ever in the area, you are very welcome to give it a try.

[oregonmatt]

No worries. I think the shop was just trying to negotiate the shipping price down a little, and didn't intend to totally refuse shipping, but you came in and offered a better deal to the
Robson guy. I would have jumped at the same opportunity, whether I was in your shoes or Robsons's. Again, hope you enjoy it - looking forward to your review.

Matt

[Bruce Farrenkopf]

Hey Martin,
Looking forward to your review on the Finkenmeister! Let's see if it makes a good creeker/river runner. Oregonmatt and I are trying to get one out here from the same dealer. The dealer, 'Next Adventures', is apparently degotiating with Robson to be the next North American distributor. Hope that works out, and fast. What color is your boat? For reasons I don't understand color has always been important to me.

Oregommatt,
Could you let me know if you get word from Next Adventures about the deal for the Robson distributorship or the container full of boats they may get? I'll do the same. I'm going to try and contact Robson directly to find out about the cost of direct shipment I am not sure I can wait until all these details are worked out! Do you want me to copy you on any emails to Robson to keep you posted?
If so, send me your email address. Mine is
bpkopf@comcast.net

SYOTR,

Bruce

[the great gonzo]

I had the Finkenmeister out on the Kipawa river in Northwestern Quebec on Saturday and Sunday(for a river describtion and pictures see here: http://www.kipawariver.ca/html/the_river.html ).
It was running around 180 cms, which is already a high level, it gets pretty pushy, but it is not technical.
Bottom line is, so far I love the boat. So sorry Mke, she is not up for sale!
The boat is stable, a little less so in primary than in secondary stability, almost as fast as the Atom, but turns much better. When put a little on edge it also tracks well. I was surprised how well it surfed, there was one really nioce wave that nobody else could catch or stay on (other boats in the group were a Dagger ID 6.9 and Massive Mojo yaks, a Riot Big Gun C1 and an Ocoee), while i could get on with a few quick forward strokes and a pry. I could have stayed on that wave all day long.
The boat is really good in big waves, on the 2nd day I tackled some of the bigger and steeper waves head on and did really well when paddled it aggressively. I found that you have to paddle it aggressively and make sure to lean forward, otherwise the stern tends to grab.
Right out of the box the trim was a little too far back for me, so as soon as I relaxed and started to lean back a bit the stern, which is fairly low volume compared to the bowhad a tendency to catch.
For the 2nd day I moved myself 1/2 inch forward by adding some foam to the back of the saddle, which helped quite a bit. I would probably have to move forward by another 1/2 inch or so.
The boat is also very predictable in big boils.
Due to it's stability, good tracking and predictability I could really concentrate on my lines. In the rapids where I exactly knew my line and where I was going actively down I was always exactly where i had to be and hit my eddies with pinpoint accuracy. The ones where I either did not see my lines or where I relaxed too early I got thrashed in.
The one theing I had a hard time was rolling it, due to its width and height it is definitely harder to roll than the Atom, although this was also partly due to the fact that the only customizing I have done so far was cutting back the hip grabber just enough to squeeze myself in, but I have not yet added any foam to the bulkhead and since I have fairly skinny legs, i was loose in there and started to slide out of the cockpit when rolling, which did not help. Towards the end of the weekend my rolls got a little better, so not all is lost...
I hope to get up to the Gull river next weekend, which is more technical and somewhat more creeky in character, if I do I will post my impressions of that run. If anyone comes up to Ontario, contact me and we can go out for a paddle and I'll let you try it out.
Oh yes Bruce, before I forget, the color is yellow with some blue swirls in it.

martin

[Bruce Farrenkopf]

Martin,
Thanks for a very helpful review. Sounds like the boat for me. Yeah, I was a little concerned about that relatively narrow and low volume stern from the pictures I saw of the boat. How does the stern get grabbed or endered relative to the Atom? Did you go over any steeper drops? I'm wondering how it boofs and whether it tends to back up into a hole if entry is too steep, or whether it surfaces forward and under control like the Cascade. My Perception Stikine C1 tended to back into holes easily, not good.
Looking forward to hearing about your experiences on the Gull with the Finkenmeister!
Thanks,
Bruce

[the great gonzo]

Bruce,

I did not go over any steeper drops, the one really steep drop on the Kipawa, Pete's Dragon on Hollywood is unrunnable at that level.
I think keeping the end from grabbing and endering is mainly a matter of finetuning the trim. The stern is higher and shorter that in the Atom and has more volume, but the difference is that while the fairly low volume bow of the Atom tends to go through waves, the higher volume bow of the Finkenmeister tends to ride over it, which pushes, particularly in very steep waves, the stern down, particularly if the trim is stern heavy.
As far as holes are concerned, I can't compare it to the Cascade, as the only time I paddled one was about 8 or 9 years ago in a pool, but on the 2nd last rapid, the Elbow, I made the ferry from river right to river left so easily that I eased off too early and did not have the right angle and enough momentum to punch the reactionary into the eddy, instead I got surfed right over into the BIG pourover hole on river right .
It was a fairly violent experience, my helmet buckle actually opened and my helmet and glasses got almost ripped off my head in there and I got almost sucked out off the boat, but my boat came out of the hole right away, the only problem was that I flipped and, because I was already half out of it, missed my roll and had to bail out , so I would say it does ok, I punched intentionally severeal of the smaller holes without any problems.
At the level we ran it at the Kip does not really have anything to boof, so I can't comment about that, but the bow has actually some similarities to the Riot Big Gun creeker, so rsurfacing and so should be good.

martin

[the great gonzo]

I had my Finkenmeister on the Gull river in Ontario, which was running high at ~25 CMS (~800 cfs).
http://www.whitewaterontario.ca/Page/gullriver.asp
At this level the Gull is very pushy, and since the temperature up here was below freezing all weekend long I did not really feel like going all out, somehow I mellow down a bit if icicles start to form in my hair and beard after a roll ...
I made a few modification s during the week, cut the edges saddle back a bit for easier enty and exit, moved the saddle an inch forward and added an inch of foam to the bulkhead to tighten up the fit.
This was definitely an improvement , the sdge of the stern is out of the water now, I did not notice any grabbing of the stern any more.
I really like the speed of the boat, almost as fast as the Atom, tracks really well, but is, due to the increased rocker, quite a bit more maneuvrable, catching microeddies is qute easy.
I did a number of smaller boofs (2-3 ft) it pretty much boofs on autopilot. It is also very stable when landing in boily water afterwards. The only problem I still have is the roll, the significant flare the hull has in the centermakes rolling it definitely harder that rolling the Atom, but this just means that I have to work on my roll...
Overall I am very happy with the Finkenmeister and would definitely recommend it, at least for somewhat bigger paddlers (I am ~185 lbs).
I think for smaller people it may be a little too much boat.

martin

[Bruce Farrenkopf]

Martin,

Thanks for the review!
Glad you were able to solve that stern problem by shifting your weight forward. Did you get stern-endered at all on the Gull?
I'm 160 lbs and have no trouble moving a Dagger Cascade around. Do you think I'd be OK with the Finkenmeister?
Your comment about boofing ability and the boat's stability landing in boils was sweet to my ears. Were you able to hold your line in pushy turbulent water or does the boat get tossed around? How does it ferry on your off-side?
SYOTR,
Bruce

[the great gonzo]

Bruce,

Yes, the shifting forward helped a lot, I did not get stern endered at all .
I was able to keep my line pretty well and did not get tossed around too much; what really helps there is to put the boat slightly on edge .
Since the edges in the center section are straight for about 4 ft they really help tracking when you engage them.
Engaging the downstream edge also helps during offside ferries, doing this could hold my angle very well.
As far as your weight is concerned, with 160 lbs you are probably at the lower limit of the weight range for this boat (it is big after all), but on the other hand 2 of the best European C1 paddlers (the designer of the boat, Thomas Fink and the current OC1 rodeo world champ Stephan Paetsch) paddle it on solid class V water and they are also in your weight range.
The only other paddler who tried it out so far is also in my weight range (~185 lbs).

Hope this helps

martin

[msims]

Martin, I'm taking tomorrow off work, and would love to paddle the Gorge if it's up or the Black. Up to playing hooky? I wanna try the fink

Call me at work, 416-263-5779 if you can make it.

Mike.

[Paddle Power]

Martin,

What are your comments about using the fink for a 3 or 4 day trip? Does the volume allow for enough gear? What do you think the added weight would do to the boat?

It is wonderful having first hand information! Keep up the good work. There may be more C1ers paddling the fink soon, pat yourself on the back.

[KNeal]

My question for you, since you've seen the boat first-hand and have paddled it, is "Can you squash volume out of the ends?"

Your posts have me considering the Finkmeister.

KNeal

[the great gonzo]

Mike, sorry, can't take off tomorrow, boss is coming back from a business trip, . Maybe next week?

PaddlePower, having the volume to do smaller (up to a week) trips was definitely one of the reasons for me getting a Finkenmeister. It definitely will require to pack light and probably also some modifications to the outfitting, but from a point of view of volume it should definitely work. I haven't tried it yet, but my guess is that the added weight would probbly make it sa little more stable, but slower, and harder to maneuver and roll. I will be able to tell you next spring, after my first trip in it .

KNeal, I guess if youheat the plastic up put a big enough truck on it, you can pretty much squish volume out of any boat , but then I would not be able to trip with it any more
And yes, so far I can only recommend it!

martin

[msims]

...we should probably start a new thread... I'm glad the topic isn't "Anyone whitewater canoe here?" Now THAT would be a long post.

I was talking to a local boat dealer if they were selling Robson boats (I knew the answer, but one can always hope! they said that Robson plastic quality is not up to par on the kayaks, especially when you're going to bump and grind a fair bit. So they were reluctant to sell them.

I'd imagine that yakkers are a little rougher on their boats in general than c1'ers (although I'm sure many exceptions to this rule post on this board) so I'm not sure what impact this would have.

I'd imagine that the Fink would have similar production characteristics as the yaks. I think it's something to consider for those who want to boof falls and have some heavy impact on your hull... unfortunately this was about all the detail that I have.

If anyone else can comment specifically on the Robson Finkenmeister quality compared to other plastic boats that'd be great.

[Bruce Farrenkopf]

Hello Msims,
Yeah, let's check out that comment about plastic quality. Who knows a yaker who's had a Robson for a year plus?

Martin,
Early on I heard something about the Finkenmeister being a 'hole destroyer'. What does that mean? Does that mean it has a reasonable chance of escaping a big hole - unlike the Cascade.?
If you happen to slide into a big hole sideways in a Cascade you're in there for life. It would be good to know the Finkenmeister can kick out of a hole. Any comments Martin?

Is the outfitting comfortable? Do you have easy access to the bow area for gear stowage? It looked like bow storage was blocked by minicell blocks from some of the pictures I saw.

Thanks for any light you can shed.
SYOYTR,
Bruce