C-Forum

IMO. Backward strokes can be more powerful than forward strokes...because a) they can be longer, and b) they are doing way more than a forward stroke, because you are paddling AGAINST the current.

back ferries and paddling backwards seems like a basic skill regardless of boats. Every once in a while I run something completely backwards (like the dryway) the whole run just to work on catching eddies in reverse and getting there with lots of back ferry action.....but I only pull that "stunt" run in my kayak once in awhile....much more frequently only for part of a rapid

back ferries and paddling backwards seems like a basic skill regardless of boats. Every once in a while I run something (like the dryway)completely backwards the whole run just to work on catching eddies in reverse and getting there with lots of back ferry action.

I only pull that "stunt" run in my kayak once in awhile....much more frequently only for part of a rapid

FullGnarlzOC wrote:I don't think it is needed in prelude or c1. And if you use one in prelude or c1, you had better have a pretty bombproof backferry and roll. lol.

Oh but it is, unless you want to land on your friend and both end up in a tree

I'll often use the backferry (or backstroke) in the flow to avoid running people down or to break out if i think i see a sticky situation, i would never dream of breaking in and trying to position myself using it though.

FullGnarlz said it perfectly:
"Or if you don't have a waterfall, backFerrying in front of a big hole will also put nerves into play and most likely put ur roll skills into play as well(as u wont always make the move)"
Which is exactly why I never back ferry in a short OC-1. Back surf? absolutely.
As you move into a longer displacement boat like a Zephyr, the back ferry becomes handy in smaller water. I never backferry a playboat in big water because of their ability to back surf... inadvertently.
Paul

So how many of you are calling it a backferry when your boat is pointed upstream and you are paddling backwards faster than the current?
I just call that paddling backwards.
To me a backferry is when the boat is pointed downstream and I'm paddling backwards to go significantly slower than the current, using the current and hull angle to move sideways.
I bring that up only because I backferry fairly often in my OC's (Outrage, Encore and various tripping solos). For me it's an effective way to slow down and reposition. It also seems to work in my Cascade C1. But I seem to get into trouble when I try that in my Atom. It was worse in the Slasher when I had that. I've had the idea that my troubles were on account of the low volume stern on those boats. Even with my weight shifted forward the stern gets really grabby and best case I'm soon working on my roll.
So does anybody backferry in a slalom or slalom wannabe type C1?

Walsh wrote:I paddle backwards quite a bit, including entire flatwater sections between rapids. It's helped - I'm not above admitting that I occasionally run a drop backwards inadvertently. Ultimately, the more things you can do in the boat, the better.

As far as efficiency is concerned, however - I have never seen a slalom boater back surf or back ferry. They spin and use power strokes. If I NEED to get somewhere, I'll be facing upstream and paddling on my onside.

Back ferries are rather rare in decked boat slalom nowadays for several reasons:
1) Anything in slalom that slows your momentum tends to be avoided.
2) Decked slalom boats have gotten shorter, increasing their ease of reversing direction via a pivot.
3) Penalites for gate touches have been reduced over the years, increasing the emphasis on speed.
4) Similarly, slalom courses have gotten shorter, with gates closer together, which has also emphasized speed.

However, if you haven't seen a slalom racer back ferry for at least a stroke or too, then you need to watch more races.

You tend to see it more in C-2 than in C-1 and it is often an emergency correction for being in a less than ideal position, but it is definitely used. I believe it was at the 2007 National Championships at ASCI (McHenry, MD) that I watched Rick Powell and Casey Eichfeld (C-2 National Champions and Olympians in 2008) miss execution of a critical pivot to make an offset gate in the middle of the course (below drop "B"). I recall being impressed at how instantaneous their joint response was in executing a quick emergency back ferry when a surging current rejected their initial effort to sink their outside edge to engage the stern pivot.

On a more mundane level, I used a two-stroke back ferry in OC-1 at the Fiddler's Elbow Slalom in late September, where the course designer had created an awkward gate combination. An upstream gate was followed closely by a downstream gate immediately below it in the tail of the same eddy. In OC-1, it was difficult to pull completely out of the upstream without a pole touch, spin 180 degrees, drive back into the same upstream, and then turn down into and through the gate in order to both avoid a pole touch and reverse direction once more toward the next gate offset to the opposite side of the creek. While I saw one OC-1 executed this move successfully, many picked up a 10 second gate penalty. I found that making an incomplete peel out of the upstream followed by two quick back strokes ferried my stern back into the eddy and allowed me to easily pull the bow into the downstream gate lined up for the next gate across the creek without any danger of a pole touch. The back ferry slowed me down in order to avoid the penalty and get in better position to be fast to the following gate.

In contrast, I took the same gate combination in C-1 direct throughout (i.e. without a back ferry) because my 3.5 meter C-1 can pivot and can easily undercut the poles to avoid pole touches.

A good move for any paddler to have in their quiver.

John

is it a back ferry if you back paddle to back surf across the face of a wave?

Back "ferrying"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3mi53K_Oo

I'll try to find a canoe one... or maybe Paul can do a "paddle pointer"

http://www.canoekayak.com/features/tech ... hopctruck/

is it a back ferry if you back paddle to back surf across the face of a wave?

Sure, why not? Don't you use wave troughs when doing forward (upstream) ferries to cut across a current?

OK, I'm only a class II/III boater, and don't single-blade on the harder stuff there, but I back ferry my MR Fantasy & what little time I've gotten single-blading my new toy - a Necky Blunt C1 conversion - I find my back ferry more reliable than a forward power-stroke (OK, I'm still working on getting used to the spin in this boat! lol)...maybe it's all the time I spend K1ing, but I can't imagine NOT using a back ferry; it's as natural to me as breathing...

I LIKE horizons back ferry, i didnt even no what this post was about til phil said howdy. i back ferry to get out of a hole once a while , usually a surfing 'venture

I back ferry alot

Because a lot of my early canoeing was either tandem, or in a small, sharp-ended OC-1 that did not turn easily, I picked up the back ferry and transferred it when I bought my Hahn. While it is easy to spin my boats and ferry forward, my head does not turn far enough to scout when my boat is facing upstream. So a bit of back ferry can be essential to planning my next downstream move.

Colin ain't joking. He back ferries frequently and gives you the opportunity to follow suit. You have to watch your spacing on Colin. I thought I had given him plenty of room at Bounce off Boulder, looked up and all of a sudden there was 14' of Blue Wall of Canada absolutely sideways and motionless.