C-Forum

would love to see the sport grow ... im addicted but that is me lol

anyway ... personally i like the looks and performance of the "Bathtub" style boats ... i love the way my skeeter handles on all types of water ...

im curious to see how my new Dagger Honcho OC-1 handles as well ... as a college student on a seriously limited budget i havent bought a boat since 2004 ... well before i picked up the Honcho and cut it up ...

as far as the looks go... to me its about how it performs ...

its the same as with automobiles ... im a fan of Rat Rods and a fan of restored Originals ... i know several people that look at a Rat Rod and ask why

i look at them and see performance

as far as the class of water i run ... Wendy hit the head of the nail ... class 3 & some class 4 im comfortable running ...

and like Richard said ... a graceful run on a class 3 rapid in my opinion will sell boats ...

i know i wont be a class 5 run so i put more emphasis when i paddle on technique rather than going to big water ...

does my technique work? ... yeah ... well not really ... i can style a good swim tho

i am looking to play more and work on rodeo ... but i cant wait to see the Option, Ion in person ... if they perform half as good as the blackfly it will be a great boat

I try to help out on instruction whenever possible, whether it is an organized trip, or someone asking for tips, or even helping some noobies get down a river and go home with a smile on their face

Most paddlers look at canoing as either something to difficult for them or something you paddle on easy stuff.

I like to show them that even a clumsy out of shape slob as myself can survive and have fun on stuff above the easy class three.

and if they wanna try out my boat they can.

thats my contrabution.

Yeah, Wendy hit the nail on the head. To most people that don't understand the sport, Class III and Class V look the same. I remember being shocked once when I heard that people ran the Lower Yough in a canoe. Then I ran it in a canoe. Go figure.

Just have fun. That's all there is to it.

I remember my first lower yough trip 2 summers ago... and I see tony... I'm thinking ..."man, not only did I see this dude on the Lehigh! but on the Lower yough too! He must really know his stuff"

- Newbs like i was are on rivers every were... just looking to find a canoer than can look up to, and learn from... on those...Class III runs. Which you guys are right... styling class III runs are the way to do it... mostly because boaters at that level don't usually get the opportunity to watch class V boaters. It's eye opening... at least it was for me...

FullGnarlzOC wrote:If everyone that open boats converts 1 kayaker every year... Assuming we have start at 200 openboaters... yr 2 = 400, yr 3 = 800, yr4 = 1600, yr5 = 3200....ect...

Now...unfortunately not everyone will be able to meet that goal and even more unfortunately...even attempt it. But it's worth a shot. I've met my quota since I've started boating... Anyone convert a kayaker last year? speak up!

I thought evangelism was out of style these days..

FullGnarlzOC wrote:I remember my first lower yough trip 2 summers ago... and I see tony... I'm thinking ..."man, not only did I see this dude on the Lehigh! but on the Lower yough too! He must really know his stuff"

- Newbs like i was are on rivers every were... just looking to find a canoer than can look up to, and learn from... on those...Class III runs. Which you guys are right... styling class III runs are the way to do it... mostly because boaters at that level don't usually get the opportunity to watch class V boaters. It's eye opening... at least it was for me...

I completely agree. In fact, I saw Tony as well out on the river, and that's why I stepped it up. Before everything was carefully scouted to run the driest line possible. This was on Class I. Then I meet this knucklehead seal launching of the steps at the Lehigh, having a blast. That's why I wanted to whitewater canoe so badly.

At the end of the day, their having fun is why I left flatwater and am now addicted. And that's what I hope to do for the next version of me, waiting to get in on the fun.

And for the record, I converted a kayaker this year. Although, the credit should be shared with Tony and Joe.

Keystone...again dude??? Shame on you John... and shame on the canoe buying public for not purchasing enough new Millbrook boats in 2010 for you to be drinking something classier... like PBR... or a big bottle of Mogen David.

Maybe it would help if we all made an effort to differentiate ourselves from the kayaking crowd so we stand out a bit more... what if we started by wearing old leather football helmets, drysuits that look like tuxedos... boxing gloves, huge pfd's with hundreds of zippers.... and Chuck Taylors with felt glued to the bottoms of them... crap like that... then they'd really know we're a bit different... and we're not afraid to show it. You ever notice it's sometimes more hip and cool to be "different".... maybe that could be our new draw... people like "different". Become a canoeist... become... DIFFERENT.

Oh... fwiw... I'm not going to suggest wierd piercings or tattoo's... nothing that's already been done to death.











































"Excuse me sir... can you tell me where the nearest hardware store is... I need to buy a can of Weldwood..."

Interesting post.
Links with one I started earlier this month. Problem with getting partners because I was an OC. OC image in the paddling world.

Now the few people I paddled with were all impressed by what the boat allowed me to do...some expressing interest, one stepping into it and proceeding having fun (he was roughly the same size).

I think just going on the river and paddling, having fun is plenty to grow the sport.
OC style, I tend to spend a lot more time on the same features, section of river with a big grin on my face. Yakers often blast down as fast as possible...in the face of it, they look like they want to be out of the water ASAP whereas I look like I'm having a lot of fun.

And I ain't particularly good either.

As for vids, they worked for me. The youtube hit of Dooley totally convinced me that this was after all the craft for me (not that I stand a chance to reach that level ever but I'm slowly working towards it )

Clubs are good I'm sure. I hate clubs, never liked them, always steered clear of them...to reach that audience that like me don't like it just go styling the runs and impress others with how graceful and nibble youse all are

If you're interested in Youth participation issues and some industry trends, you should read the Outdoor Industry reports... the participation study is cited alot: http://www.outdoorindustry.org/particip ... rch_id=121

Now whitewater canoeing isn't included as an activity, but look more at trends in whitewater kayaking to get an idea of the interest in whitewater to begin with. Once people are interested in whitewater, its easy to show them that Open Boating (or C1/C2ing/whatever) is REALLY cool.

In my opinion people who already love whitewater, like WW kayakers, actually love whitewater more than they love kayaking. So sharing your open boat or C1 with a kayaking buddy should be relatively easy to do if you can overcome the unfounded prejudices and this is a great first step in opening their minds to the variety of crafts out there. I see it Slalom all the time... every slalom paddler I know can hop in a C1 or K1 and have a good time, although of course they have specialty.

Its also easy to hate on clubs and club boaters, but clubs play an important role in getting boaters interested in boating because of the social aspects of paddling, camping together, traveling together, etc. not just running the gnar. They also fill a necessary role of providing safe, usually high quality instructional programs. Don't hate on clubs or club boaters, they're still boaters even if they're wearing nose plugs, ear plugs, and rec specs.

i have to disagree with some earlier posts-that showing non-boaters harder stuff won';t interest them. i got a non-boater into cboating this past summer, and have 3 more waiting on warmer weather, all from seeing my computor screensaver-a slideshow of boating photos. every one of these dudes was amazed by pics of me and others running waterfalls and bigger looking stuff. thery get fired up, like "hey i bet i could do that", when you gonna teach me? i wanna run a waterfall!" these are average guys age 20-40. same thing happened to me. saw some vid of dooley runnin the sht and just had to try it out. i found the whole 'starting out easy' stuff to be frustrating, boring. chris said it was the knucklehead seal launching that got him excited to try it. go out there and fire it up! and take video!

kaz wrote:I believe that in some European countries that whitewater paddling is a high school sport. Some of our friends here can correct me on this if I'm wrong. I think, and I may be wrong, that canoeing is just as popular as kayaking in Europe. (Probably wrong).

Difficult to say - and there are big differences between the countries.
- The popularity of C1 and C1 racing is relatively high in some european countries, mostly the eastern countries. And it`s popular in France (I don`t know why). What I like about the french sight on the sport is that they are very relaxed without rivality as far as i see it. (something that is getting better in Germany too). A lot of people paddle both, kayaks and canoes. For example the 3. of the Green Race 2009, Eric Deguil, is an international C1-racer but went to the Green with a kajak.

- With open boating it looks different but I have the feeling that the interest in the western european countries is rising. There was a big OC-meeting in France 2010. There is a great ambassador for cboating in Germany - Taniwha - and he is pushing the sport as best as he can in der german KANUMAGAZIN.

1. Raising my kids to enjoy paddling while they are still little - and inviting their friends along whenever possible. If they don't have peers to share the sport with, there's not much motivation to keep at it.

2. Helping teach the whitewater canoe classes offered at our local university.

So there we all agree that although introducing more people to the sport is the only way to go, most folks will eventually quit paddling because it is a sport that requires some degree of dedication and at the end, it's just an activity amongst so many others and its interest seems to fade away somehow.

For me it was different. Right away when I begun WW it was obvious for me that I was hooked, precisely because it was not just a kick, not just one other fun activity out there. Canoeing has merged itself with so many other different things I loved and felt I didn't do enough at the time... I knew I was a canoeist for good.

I love the outdoors and I am never getting enough time in nature. I like fishing but wasn't doing it so often. I wasn't getting enough physical exercise, would have love to go camping more often and getting the kids involved more in some outdoor activities. Then the pure challenge of running hard water in an open boat also catches up.

If it was only for creeking I wouldn't be such a dedicated player for sure. So basically introducing people to the multiple aspects of ww canoeing might have a better impact overall then just getting a newbie to paddle down your local class 3 run once.

Just say'n. Now as for growing the sport there is to me more than just an interest amongst canoe cies and folks who would like more new designs to come up. The concrete beavers around here are killing rivers at mach1 speed and nobody seems to care much. In fact you see mainly paddlers walking down the streets to protest against them new projects but that's it. Getting good on your new xbox game isn't waking up anybody's awareness about the environmental issues.

Keep on ww rocking while we still can.

It's amazing that there is so much disagreement and confusion on this subject. Like any other hobby or sport I believe that you must be visible to a broad spectrum of folks, be accessable, and have fun. If you do these things the folks will naturally gravitate to the activity.