Practice for you hard edgers

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:52 pm

love it...

that belongs on a bumper sticker...

[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 7484_n.jpg[/img]

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:00 am

"FullG just said "brace" not specifically "low brace", so who knows what he meant, there's lots of ways to "brace. Maybe there is no conflict. But I agree with the posts (and videos) that on an eddy turn your blade should be planted on the inside of turn, meaning that a low brace isn't an option when you drop the outside edge. I agree your torso and a high brace/draw/stroke are what's needed."

you shouldnt have to put your paddle in the water once you cross the eddy line... It goes like this... you see a couple of hot shredder chicks - and you don't have alot to work with, and only minimal time? No problem... Just throw a McEddy.

the McEddy - when done correctly....You drop outside to inside (stops momentum, and stabilizes)...then you are automatically reaching for your peel-out stroke... and your gone... the babes don't know what hit em...and they are left with the thought of..."holy crap...who was thattttt duuuude in the canoe"

that is... - if they don't aleady know.

lol.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:18 am

in english ?

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:24 am

Phil,

the gliding draw works in just about any boat. It needs to be tweaked depending on the boat, but the basics are the same.
My question is more about your statement that dropping the outside edge makes your peelout gradual. I dunno, but my experience is the opposite. If I drop the inside edge during a peelout the current has less or nothing to grab on and will maainly flow underneath the hull, making the peelout more gradual. If I drop the outside edge the n the second the bow crosses the eddyline the current starts grabbing it and off we go downstream. Or am I misunderstanding you there??

TGG!

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:26 am

crap... the conversation went "there" anyway.

upstream edge...

downstream edge...

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:36 am

Craig Smerda wrote:crap... the conversation went "there" anyway.

upstream edge...

downstream edge...

...L'Edge...

...

TGG!

Shep · Post by **Shep** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:27 am

Man, so many good little tidbits thrown out in this thread. I wish we actually had some water here for me to practice it!!!

Shep

eddyhops · Post by **eddyhops** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:51 am

Shep wrote:Man, so many good little tidbits thrown out in this thread. I wish we actually had some water here for me to practice it!!!

Shep

FWIW, a chunk of this technique can be practiced on a relatively
small area of flat water.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:40 am

So, McHotGuy, when you're pulling your coolio, high-speed, outside-edge McEddy turn to impress the shredder chicks - don't you think you'd look even more super-human if your upper body and blade were already on the other side, where your peel-out strokes will happen anyway, instead of flapping around your onside in case you need a low brace?

To me, first priority is strokes on the inside on the turn (isn't that why they call it an offside eddy turn? I thought you were into cross strokes as the difference-maker between mice and men??). Second option is whether or not to engage the outside edge.

But to engage that outside edge and keep yourself onside for a butt-saver? Those shredder chicks are to easy to impress! Or maybe that's why you say shredder chicks, because OC-1 babes would notice your turn was lame??

Pat.

p.s. Phil, yeah, I'm with Gonzo, I don't see dropping the upstream edge (better Craig?) as something that helps you peel-out far into a current, once that edge grabs, it's bye-bye. Maybe it's a matter of matter of how much edge you engage and how heavily your upper body is working the paddle on the downstream side?

Ah, whadda I know, look at my photo, not even boofing a waterfall, I paddle a round-bottomed Outrage and lean downstream on my peel-outs.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:07 am

" don't you think you'd look even more super-human if your upper body and blade were already on the other side, where your peel-out strokes will happen anyway, instead of flapping around your onside in case you need a low brace? "

Chicks love it when you eddy out with your paddle never touching the water... using the water to do what you want to do. Shows....prowess.

...hah, what a load of crap.

I agree... with being on the inside. Pat - read my first post again - when I referenced the 'low brace' i was talking about those that are learning.... they'll need that low brace until they understand and 'feel' the outside to inside shift... otherwise you flip.

but back to eddying out, without touching your paddle in the water... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iXP9yoc4VY

"Any other questions?"

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:58 am

the great gonzo wrote:Phil,

the gliding draw works in just about any boat. It needs to be tweaked depending on the boat, but the basics are the same.
My question is more about your statement that dropping the outside edge makes your peelout gradual. I dunno, but my experience is the opposite. If I drop the inside edge during a peelout the current has less or nothing to grab on and will maainly flow underneath the hull, making the peelout more gradual. If I drop the outside edge the n the second the bow crosses the eddyline the current starts grabbing it and off we go downstream. Or am I misunderstanding you there??

TGG!

upstream edge...

I don't really care if it's a outside or inside edge, for that would be referencing a onside or offside move. I use this is regardless of what side, and what blade being used. As for it's effectiveness there's really only one way to test it out. And that's not from a keyboard (unless it's a waterproof Droid). If people don't want to try this that's fine, it's just another method that's been working for me for a couple decades.

BTW - The gliding stroke is a optional component, and not required to complete function; however as it's merely one stroke, there's a rather quaint elegance in it's use. For I often do the same move on a upstream rudder as well, using it to keep the boat turned upstream and prevent loss of angle. For the main thing is catching the upstream edge, and ride it using edge control. With control being the operative word, and not out of (control). You will not flip, once finding what's too far. Try it on something small at first - of course. And then move on up to the raging classes later. I do this all the time, it's not speculation. It's merely something which most people will shy away from.... because they have been always taught to lean downstream. And what a shame because that's limiting them.

I watch this same fear in peoples ferrying as well. When they really don't want to drop down there, OH NO not there. So they lean away on their ever faithful downstream edge and dig harder. Just giving away precious distance, simply thrown away from the git-go. When instead - if they were paddling on an upstream edge, they would not be giving away ground (well water) all the while leaning headfirst into trouble . They could be gaining some power from using the waters motion, that gripping flipping upstream water on the edge part. Plus they could get another boat width of river to complete their move, by just stroking on that upstream side.

Yes - I took a class and was taught to always lean downstream. I was also taught to snow plow in the beginning. So if someone is at that part in their learning curve... practice just that. However if you've got that covered, and can get around fine, then maybe it's time to progress a bit further. This is just another thing to have in your quiver of strokes. Sort of like having a parking brake on a car (yes different physics - but another ridiculous thought at first glance) . You can use it to stop, and you can use it to stay stopped. But if applied at speed when turning the steering wheel, it can make the turn even faster... and who would ever do that. My driving instructor would not have approved, but my hard driving acquaintances do.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:12 pm

Phil,

First off, the good news, I agree with most of what you stated here

! And I use the outside tilt turn (using thee terminology from 'Thrill of the paddle' here), quite a lot myself and it works.
But I disagree with some points.
Inside our outside edge does not refer to on-or offside, the inside edge of a turn, nor upstream or downstream, but the inside of your turn. When peeling out of an eddy the outside edge happens to be the upstream edge, regardless of whether it is an on or offside peel-out. When eddying out the outside edge is the downstream edge, regardless of whether it is to the on- or offside. The same is true when using the edge tilt for corse adjustments on the og, wheter your outside edge is upstream or downstream depends on what direction your boat is pointed and on where you are turning. Sorry for not being able to explain myself better

...

The one thing I disagree with you however is your statement that: by dropping the upstream or outside edge 'you'll peel out further'.

I find the opposite to be true. whenever I drop the outside or upstream edge it grabs and my turn becomes more abrupt and I dont get out as far in the current that when on my inside or downstream edge, all other factors (momentum, angle...) being equal.
Heck even Scriver and Mason agree with me on that, at least that's what they say in the paragraph about the outside tilt turn in 'Thrill of the Paddle'. That is the point I tried to make in my last post. I would like to explain this better, but I have glue to sniff i.e. rafts to repair now

.

TGG!

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:46 pm

Peel out further w/ lifting inside edge. If you peel-out dropping outside edge your boat catches faster, and your off - at least this is how it works when I do it.

Now depending on the angle that you peel out - you can get the water to ' shift you' through the current w/ dropping the outside edge on a peel-out.... but its more of a ferry angle that is taking place.

my two cents. whether it worth anything or not.

Love talking about moves and variations of moves w/ regards to hard chined boats.

Nessmuk · Post by **Nessmuk** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:52 pm

when I referenced the 'low brace' i was talking about those that are learning.... they'll need that low brace until they understand and 'feel' the outside to inside shift... otherwise you flip

If a beginner is trying an outside edge eddy turn with the paddle in a position where they can use it to do a low brace, they are practically guaranteeing themselves that they will flip.

Planting the paddle in the eddy not only stabilizes you with the high brace effect, it also stabilizes you by forcing you to shift your weight to the inside of the turn- counteracting the "flipping force".

You can't learn how to do a technique correctly by doing it wrong....

Shep · Post by **Shep** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:22 pm

Nessmuk wrote:You can't learn how to do a technique correctly by doing it wrong....

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