OC Slalom Nats

paddling physicist · Post by **paddling physicist** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:37 pm

The northeast still over the years has by far, held the majority of the Nationals, just not recently. Opening up the dates would help, because we are a spring/fall water area. After the Sept. '96 nat's at Zoar Gap there were complaints that the juniors couldn't compete because of school, so since then we've had them in the summer. I was one of the ones that lobbied for that because of my kids and there were a LOT more young participants then. Maybe it's not an issue anymore.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:42 pm

paddling physicist wrote:The northeast still over the years has by far, held the majority of the Nationals, just not recently. Opening up the dates would help, because we are a spring/fall water area. After the Sept. '96 nat's at Zoar Gap there were complaints that the juniors couldn't compete because of school, so since then we've had them in the summer. I was one of the ones that lobbied for that because of my kids and there were a LOT more young participants then. Maybe it's not an issue anymore.

We're all gettin' older Mike... now us young'ns (30-40 year olds) have the children as the "Masters" are kicking their kids out of the nest.

P.S. Who's up for having OC Nat's during the start of Gauley season in the NorthEast???!!!

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:16 pm

tumblehome anyone?

Stingray · Post by **Stingray** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:27 pm

Craig
Smart move ignoring the OCS rules when designing the L’edge . I wish I’d done that. When I was building the plug for the Stingray the rule changed from 4 meters to 13 ft. right when I was ready to blow the mold, so I waited until the committee made up their minds, and when they did I grinded 1 ½ inches off the end of the canoe and made it 13 ft ½ inch. Knowing I was going to make a shorter one. Well I have a short mold made (11 Ft 5/8 inch) and ready to make boats. Looks like I’ll have two molds that fit the short boat rules if passed.

The class structure you posted on 7/8/09 2:35 pm is looking better.

If I may suggest a couple more changes, most of us are masters as you noted, so I would replace OC2 Junior with Jr/Sr to encourage (Father/Mother w/ Son or Daughter) event, It may not fill some years, but some parents may be encouraged just to bring the children to paddle with some other hot boater providing a fun experience for both of them. I’ve paddled with Jr. in the past and had a lot fun doing it. We didn’t win so maybe it wasn’t so great for the junior, but I would do it again if the opportunity was available.
Although I have mixed feeling about the next change, 13 ft 2 inches maybe the best choice, but I was thinking 13ft 6 inch may have less of an impact on industry and paddlers who like the 15 ft. boat.
We should try to keep the combine whenever possible, just four classes total, Solo open, women and Tandem could be open, women & diverse class which includes, mixed, jr/sr, masters (over fifty) of any sex all race against each other.
The X boats are popular and a lot of paddlers bring them. They may not all race, but they’re out playing on the features offered at the nice race sites and want to paddle them on other rivers during their travels. With more and more site providing free style features maybe it’s now possible to incorporate and free style event at the OC National at sites that have feature suitable for the freestyle event. I have no idea what’s involved with scoring and such, Do you always have to have a bit nasty hole/wave to play or can it be done on a more introductory scale? I’ve always enjoyed playing of waves and small hole and might give it a try if available. I have a hard time driving many hours for just for a free style event, but if it were during the OC slalom National. Maybe have the completion on a practice day.
There’s been a lot of interesting points of mentioned on this tread and the discussion is excellent. Moring forward can be done and I hope it continues. There’s new materials be develop all the time now which will help reduce classes. The weight issue of the past will be almost nonexistent and soon will be I expect. Then we can have a couple citizens classes and remove rec classes and only have race classes, this would really reduce classes and bring the nationals back in line with the skill of the boater not so much the material of the boat. OOOO won’t that be nice. Now I’m getting dizzy or have I been dizzy all the time.
One last note, if I may replay in reference to Northeast Race bids. I believe the last one was the same year as Jonquiere and was on the dead river again. We all know how that vote went. I sure had a good time in Canada that year. I would have had a good time on the Dead too.
All this rain and I have to sit at home in front of a computer. Urrrrrrrr.
Its been a nice topic to discuss. I’ll try to come up with other ideas that may not be in class structure although it hard to avoid. Maybe a money award. Seems more and more a trend to get boater at events.

paddling physicist · Post by **paddling physicist** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:53 pm

Go Ray!!

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:35 pm

Stingray wrote:I have a short mold made (11 Ft 5/8 inch) and ready to make boats. Looks like I’ll have two molds that fit the short boat rules is passed.

If I may suggest a couple more changes, most of us are masters as you noted, so I would replace OC2 Junior with Jr/Sr to encourage (Father/Mother w/ Son or Daughter) event, It may not fill some years, but some parents may be encouraged just to bring the children to paddle with some other hot boater providing a fun experience for both of them. I’ve paddled with Jr. in the past and had a lot fun doing it. We didn’t win so maybe it wasn’t so great for the junior, but I would do it again if the opportunity was available.

Although I have mixed feeling about the next change, 13 ft 2 inches maybe the best choice, but I was thinking 13ft 6 inch may have less of an impact on industry and paddlers who like the 15 ft. boat.

The X boats are popular...

There’s been a lot of interesting points of mentioned on this tread and the discussion is excellent....

It's been a nice topic to discuss. I’ll try to come up with other ideas that may not be in class structure although it hard to avoid. Maybe a money award. Seems more and more a trend to get boater at events.

Ray... you should post some pictures of the shorter version... I liked the looks of it a lot the last time I saw it here in town. I think it's really cool that folks like you and Kaz are coming up with shorter new composite designs. It's what OCSlalom racing needs from my vantage point.

As far as the OC2 Junior category... I'd suggest that anyone can paddle with a junior in this class. I just didn't make a lengthy informative dissertation about it.
Edit... I added some more information to that post... take a look.
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... 7357#47357

I thought the older design race boat lengths were 4 Meters (13.1234 ft.) and longer... so basically those are the boats I'd suggest combining into one class. (13.???' and longer would be "Long Race")

I enjoy the "X" boats very much as well Ray... and they are extremely versatile little boats. But they don't really make great racing boats though. The organizers could always allow us to have a freestyle event ("rolling rodeo" from feature to feature) and a boatercross style race plus other things of that nature for the "X" boaters... but I'd suggest doing it on Saturday after the slalom racing is all done and the volunteers aren't needed. We can pretty much judge and score ourselves... since it'd mainly be for fun and for campfire bragging rights.

Race boats are Race boats and Rec boats are Rec boats... pretty cut and dried from my standpoint. At this point I feel we need to keep both seperate. Personally I'm not in favor whatsoever of the "Citizens Class" mentality... it's "Nationals" and not everyone is going to be a "winner" but that doesn't mean that everyone shouldn't come and watch, learn, practice and compete. If you're coming just to get a medal and a title I think you might be coming for the wrong reasons. OC Nat's is a lot of fun especially if you come with the right kind of mindset. You can learn a lot... hang out and paddle with the most friendly people in paddling and generally have a great time. It's what you make of it... not what you expect of it. The first time I went to Nationals in Richmond years ago I expected folks like Kaz, Frankie Hubbard and a lot of paddling icons to be snobby or blow off a no one like me... boy was I wrong... they were some of the nicest folks you could ever meet and they were more than happy to chat about any old dumb question I asked. On one of my runs I paddled like crap... I was floating down to the takeout slumped over and relaxing when "BAM" someone hit me right in the side my boat... it was Wayne Dickert. I popped up and he said "how was your run?" to which I said "horrible", he gave me a few pointers and told me to get myself back up to the top and tear it up. He didn't have to do that... but that's the mentality at OC Nationals. I've been to a few decked boat races over the years... and let's just say they're typically a little more "into themselves".

If it takes prize money or a table full of donated gear which is all real nice when it happens to get people to come... once again... I think they're coming for all the wrong reasons.

My focus and the reason I feel free to state my feelings about a lot of these issues is because I'd hate to see the Nationals just "go away" or become some stale boring and unattended event. I think it's up to all of us as racers and those on the committee not to think about what they want personally but to think and act collectively for the betterment of the race and it's future. My opinions might not be right... might not want to be heard... and might not be appreciated by everyone... but that's o.k. with me because I'm not looking out for myself. I want to see the race move around and stay popular... and for the sport to move forwards.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:47 pm

philcanoe wrote:tumblehome anyone?

You've been awfully quiet Phlip... whaz up?

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:50 pm

Craig Smerda wrote:...
If it takes prize money or a table full of donated gear which is all real nice when it happens to get people to come... once again... I think they're coming for all the wrong reasons.
...

I went just for the T-shirt and to tell the folks at work I competed in a NATIONAL championship!

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:56 pm

sbroam wrote:
Craig Smerda wrote:...
If it takes prize money or a table full of donated gear which is all real nice when it happens to get people to come... once again... I think they're coming for all the wrong reasons.
...
I went just for the T-shirt and to tell the folks at work I competed in a NATIONAL championship!

I'm only showing up this year with the hopes that Kaz'll let me smash up an Inferno!

Well... that and the fact it's a mile from my house.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:01 pm

Does anyone make 15ft. "solo" whitewater canoes anymore? Looking at the Millbrook site... http://www.millbrookboats.com/ it doesn't appear that Johnny even offers one. Of course I realize you can paddle some tandem boats solo but...

cbcboat · Post by **cbcboat** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:12 pm

Does anyone make 15ft. "solo" whitewater canoes anymore? Looking at the Millbrook site... http://www.millbrookboats.com/ it doesn't appear that Johnny even offers one. Of course I realize you can paddle some tandem boats solo but...

The OC1 15 class is as much a novelty as the X class and I think usually has less racers than the X class. Though its fun watching the big boats paddled solo.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:43 pm

cbcboat wrote:The OC1 15 class is as much a novelty as the X class and I think usually has less racers than the X class. Though its fun watching the big boats paddled solo.

Running a 15ft boat through slalom gates takes skill... mad skillz.

I am not nor have I ever been opposed to people racing 15ft. boats but I feel it's prudent to combine 4 & 5(?) Meter boats together at this point if we'd want to consolidate and trim down the number of classes. Put the boats that most closely fit together... together. Or... how 'bout we combine the "X" class boats with the 15ft'ers... now that'd be entertaining... maybe even have it a mass start through the gates.

cbcboat · Post by **cbcboat** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:52 pm

Running a 15ft boat through slalom gates takes skill... mad skillz.

Absolutely agree! My point was its a small class and could be lumped in with the 13' especially if the X class is on the table to be, well, X'd. I am considering trying the 15' class this year myself, just for novelty sake, and since maybe it might not be a class in the future (assuming things one day change).
B

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:19 pm

cbcboat wrote:I am considering trying the 15' class this year myself, just for novelty sake, and since maybe it might not be a class in the future (assuming things one day change).
B

You do realize I'm not actually on the rules committee right?

I'm just bringing up some things I feel could facilitate more interest in hosting the race in the future for discussion at the actual rules committee meeting and still trying to accomodate everyone and every boat.

It's up to the committee and chair to make any actual changes within the by-laws or by changing the by-laws.

Bob P · Post by **Bob P** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:36 pm

Here in New England there are still several (or more) active Med RAC paddlers, although every race they seem to be delving even further into the Masters class. I don't recall anyone under 40 entering since Kaz went ancient too. On the other hand, those guys show everyone how subtle technique can be beautiful, and sometimes even fast.