C-Forum

This is a hugely important point she brings up. There are very few canoes on the market that an average female can pick up and put on the top of her own car (let alone hike out of the upper green carrying comfortably) We often discuss weight as a convenience or as a factor of how the boat paddles, but 50% of your potential customers are women. They can't consider a boat they can't wrangle.

This presents an interesting design problem to solve. Otherwise they'll end up with a kayak.

The Esquif Zoom has some fans in the light/female category. There were a couple Canadian ladies kicking butt in them at ALF last year. I miss mine.

avlclimber wrote:This is a hugely important point she brings up. There are very few canoes on the market that an average female can pick up and put on the top of her own car (let alone hike out of the upper green carrying comfortably) We often discuss weight as a convenience or as a factor of how the boat paddles, but 50% of your potential customers are women. They can't consider a boat they can't wrangle.

This presents an interesting design problem to solve. Otherwise they'll end up with a kayak.

At the risk of sounding churlish, is this not at least as much a conditioning issue as a boat issue?

Whilst 25kg (54lb) is not particularly light, a person with average* physical fitness should be able to lift (and with correct posture carry) around half their own body weight, and the (median) average woman weighs 55-70kg (125-160lb).

Definitely in the groups I paddle with, it's noticable that the smaller people (be they male or female) who are physically fit have little trouble carrying a creekboat (~20-23 kg), yet those who are less fit struggle.

*I'm not entirely sure what's meant by average physical fitness in the literature on this, It seems to refer not to a statistical average, but to the middle of a theoretical continum of fitness - roughly equating to what a human body should be able to achieve without undergoing physical training.

I think weight is a big issue - and not just for women, but for my kids and me and my aging back... Sure, I can pick up 45# (20KG) Spanish Fly, but do I like carrying it very far? No... Hiking out of the Upper Green or at Woodall Shoals are far from pleasant. Maybe not if it had shoulder straps and a hip belt and it balanced nicely. It's not so bad balanced on top of my head, but not all of my boats are so accommodating. A 60 pound boat? Ugh...

That is one of the reasons the Zephyr is still in my stable (with *thigh straps* - as much for weight as adjustability). My daughter can just about carry it, but it's still a bit of a big boat for her, though she is growing into it. I'm thinking another composite boat is in my future...

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This is a common complaint that I hear from women, older folk, and even less physical men.... and not necessarily from just the dainty.

A fully outfitted Ion is 47lbs. To keep things in perspective, that's the same as a small Nomad. If you're looking for something lighter, go composite. The chines on a royalex Ion or Option would wear out way too fast to be practical.

weight, durability, cost: pick two.

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A very valid variation on the "faster, better, cheaper : pick two" rule.

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Been there my old thirteen foot Edge came in at 19 pounds and a couple ounces fully outfitted, but being cored was not really a steep creeker.

Was not really asking for u(s) to make a sacrifice.... just casting a wish for a different (future) material.

I have an idea how to address a few of these "issues"...

Anyone have a spare $100K they can loan me?

The Spanish Fly and Ion are the easiest boats to carry as a short 5 ft 3 1/2 female. I really enjoyed carrying the Zephyr too, however realized that if you are under 5'4" the stern will drag going up steep ascents like the Chattooga and Upper Green, etc. The key issue for me is lifting the boat onto the car- the deltoids just don't get stong enough- and I work out, and paddle alot. Now I have an Ion (48 pounds) and a special L'Edge 50 # (to be used in deeper water).

here's a question based on Wendy's comment...

how differently does a 16 foot long boat that weighs 60lbs carry than a 12 foot long boat that weighs 60lbs versus an 8 foot long boat that weighs 60lbs?

where's Paul Mason?

the only difference is swing weight... if they both had comfortable yokes. hence why the short boats feel heavier. I'm thinking of putting a trailer hitch on my boat so i don't have to pick it up to put it on the car. just drag it.
paul

Craig Smerda wrote:I have an idea how to address a few of these "issues"...

Anyone have a spare $100K they can loan me?

Sure Craig, just send me your bank account info

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I would be interested in a canoe with the same style and finess as the Zoom that I could continue to progress to a higher level without destroying it, rather than switching to a fool proof boat requiring less skill for advancment.

Thank You for your interest!