Off side Surfing and Spins
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OK ... I've had my fun - now to help maybe... everything everybody said... and
pleeaazzee bear with me... these are from a slalom race, had a good first run and was play'n around on second run, that's way these are so rushed, and paddle intensive... you really don't need to paddle so hard, in fact hardly at all (in a good hole)
1) simple side surf, boat relatively flat
2) (this time) starting in forward surf, was to help gain some momentun... note head - your body will follow your head, your lower body is attached to upper, and boat is attached to the lower body... using a little forward sweep/reverse combination
3) head still leading, looking around to back -simply continue same initial move... getting paddle ready for reverse sweep
4) still look around (could of been more), and finishing up with onside portion
5) crossing over, not always necessary if easy surf (was in a hurry racing)
6) head still leading, notice how torso is loaded up... this actually pulls the boat around with your body - the boat has to come around
7) boat is following my head around... notice how paddle is almost in the same place, goal is not to sweep blade across the water, goal is to rotate boat around, while paddle stays in place
stroke was not really necessary, lean was
9) starting over again...this was a race, so three and out (without letting any water in)
couple things:
look for a current differential in the hole, or a place where the water is flowing back upstream - this is where to 360... else go to one end, and let the downstream water help pull boat around
ideally the boat stays atop the differential, around and around with the flow... onto the faster water with one end (this is letting the water work for you) and the other end on slower
most important the head... sitting in flat water twist - looking as far behind and around as possible, notice how the boat wants to start and to turn on it's own, without any blade help... this is part because of torso loading... the rest is from lean - as you lead head first, your body mechanics also cause the hull to list or lean in the proper orientation
gaining too much spinning speed can cause you to spin off the hole or wave, sometimes you have to slow down to stay... you actually get going too fast and fling off
to sort of get the feel, reach way out to your onside, holding the paddle with one hand, down the shaft to just above water, shaft pointing straight up... with other hand grab opposite gunwale.... now pull the gunwale arm to the other, using lower body... feel how boat feels pulled around, this is how the boat should feel
((in fact this is how all your turns should feel, using your lower body... not some weak armed pulling the blade through the water))
good luck, have fun, and pass the knowledge on - if this works for you
pleeaazzee bear with me... these are from a slalom race, had a good first run and was play'n around on second run, that's way these are so rushed, and paddle intensive... you really don't need to paddle so hard, in fact hardly at all (in a good hole)
1) simple side surf, boat relatively flat
2) (this time) starting in forward surf, was to help gain some momentun... note head - your body will follow your head, your lower body is attached to upper, and boat is attached to the lower body... using a little forward sweep/reverse combination
3) head still leading, looking around to back -simply continue same initial move... getting paddle ready for reverse sweep
4) still look around (could of been more), and finishing up with onside portion
5) crossing over, not always necessary if easy surf (was in a hurry racing)
6) head still leading, notice how torso is loaded up... this actually pulls the boat around with your body - the boat has to come around
7) boat is following my head around... notice how paddle is almost in the same place, goal is not to sweep blade across the water, goal is to rotate boat around, while paddle stays in place
stroke was not really necessary, lean was
9) starting over again...this was a race, so three and out (without letting any water in)
couple things:
look for a current differential in the hole, or a place where the water is flowing back upstream - this is where to 360... else go to one end, and let the downstream water help pull boat around
ideally the boat stays atop the differential, around and around with the flow... onto the faster water with one end (this is letting the water work for you) and the other end on slower
most important the head... sitting in flat water twist - looking as far behind and around as possible, notice how the boat wants to start and to turn on it's own, without any blade help... this is part because of torso loading... the rest is from lean - as you lead head first, your body mechanics also cause the hull to list or lean in the proper orientation
gaining too much spinning speed can cause you to spin off the hole or wave, sometimes you have to slow down to stay... you actually get going too fast and fling off
to sort of get the feel, reach way out to your onside, holding the paddle with one hand, down the shaft to just above water, shaft pointing straight up... with other hand grab opposite gunwale.... now pull the gunwale arm to the other, using lower body... feel how boat feels pulled around, this is how the boat should feel
((in fact this is how all your turns should feel, using your lower body... not some weak armed pulling the blade through the water))
good luck, have fun, and pass the knowledge on - if this works for you
Last edited by philcanoe on Fri May 09, 2008 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- sbroam
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Philcanoe - nice, very nice - Scott
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- sbroam
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blink - the light came on yesterday. Between actually having some water, the posts above, and adjusting the trim in the boat it all finally clicked. Had some nice side surf spots yesterday and finally went all the way around. And around and around...
Let the boat go around to 90 degrees from the hole, shifted the weight to the other knee, gentle reverse sweep, and reached back to *look* at the stern and around it came... Just loading up and *looking* at the stern brought the boat around - no paddle - dang, what a feeling! Sweet! Merry Christmas to me! And y'all too!
Let the boat go around to 90 degrees from the hole, shifted the weight to the other knee, gentle reverse sweep, and reached back to *look* at the stern and around it came... Just loading up and *looking* at the stern brought the boat around - no paddle - dang, what a feeling! Sweet! Merry Christmas to me! And y'all too!
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- Dooleyoc-1
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Phil,
What a great series of pics to help people learn how to do 360's. Very cool.
I'll add one thing. Mark Scriver told me one time that it's easier to do 360's to your off-side because you have more power with both strokes when you are spinning to your off-side. I agree with him. I can spin both ways but I have more power on an off-side 360 (you just have to be a little more comfortable with your offside to start spinning that way and commit to it).
Phil, do you have any pics that you could post of a 360 in the opposite direction to your off-side?
What a great series of pics to help people learn how to do 360's. Very cool.
I'll add one thing. Mark Scriver told me one time that it's easier to do 360's to your off-side because you have more power with both strokes when you are spinning to your off-side. I agree with him. I can spin both ways but I have more power on an off-side 360 (you just have to be a little more comfortable with your offside to start spinning that way and commit to it).
Phil, do you have any pics that you could post of a 360 in the opposite direction to your off-side?
- Dooleyoc-1
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Also, one more thing...
***Phil said this and he is dead on. The most important thing to remember when doing a 360 is to lead with your head***. You need to look the direction you want to spin and the rest of your body will follow and the boat will spin around.
Eli taught me this. It doesn't matter which direction you are spinning you have to lead with your head and aggressively look the way you want to spin. Phil does a great job of this and you can see it in the pics.
It's the same principle as doing a Helicopter (360) when you are skiing. When I learned how to do that jump my friend that was teaching me showed me how to load my torso and throw my head and upper body in the direction I wanted to spin and presto! Your lower body follows you around and you've done a 360.
***Phil said this and he is dead on. The most important thing to remember when doing a 360 is to lead with your head***. You need to look the direction you want to spin and the rest of your body will follow and the boat will spin around.
Eli taught me this. It doesn't matter which direction you are spinning you have to lead with your head and aggressively look the way you want to spin. Phil does a great job of this and you can see it in the pics.
It's the same principle as doing a Helicopter (360) when you are skiing. When I learned how to do that jump my friend that was teaching me showed me how to load my torso and throw my head and upper body in the direction I wanted to spin and presto! Your lower body follows you around and you've done a 360.
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Absolutely. In fact, in steps 5-8, I didn't have my paddle on the offside at all - these were small enough holes, I didn't need the support on that side. Instead of just looking back to my right (I'm righty spinning right), I twisted around with my paddle back along the right side of the boat (upstream side at that point, but out of the water) and *that's* what brought the boat around - the torso rotation, the "winding up", all led by my head.Dooleyoc-1 wrote:Also, one more thing...
***Phil said this and he is dead on. The most important thing to remember when doing a 360 is to lead with your head***. You need to look the direction you want to spin and the rest of your body will follow and the boat will spin around.
Need to work on going the other way... The water is up again, might have to go back...
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When practicing on small features that aren't very retentive, convert the reverse sweep into a back stroke pushing the vertical paddle blade forward (the non-power face is doing the work) when the boat is perpendicular to the wave. At the same time shift your weight very slightly to the (soon to be) downstream side. Always lead with your head (read eyes).
That would be the Mulberry Fork race, one of three down this way.
http://www.mulberryraces.com/
AND
http://www.mulberryraces.com/
AND
maybe can get some from today.Dooleyoc-1 wrote: . . .Phil, do you have any pics that you could post of a 360 in the opposite direction to your off-side?
Hi Guys, heres a little clip that shows some good spinning body technique...
Yes its a small boat....as boat size increases the rotation has to be even more pronounced, the head will really need to be looking for the back of the boat...every time.
http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb53 ... t=BOB1.flv
Yes its a small boat....as boat size increases the rotation has to be even more pronounced, the head will really need to be looking for the back of the boat...every time.
http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb53 ... t=BOB1.flv
What boat are you in in this clip? It looks like an i3 but I could be mistaken.wetnobby wrote:Hi Guys, heres a little clip that shows some good spinning body technique...
Yes its a small boat....as boat size increases the rotation has to be even more pronounced, the head will really need to be looking for the back of the boat...every time.
http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb53 ... t=BOB1.flv
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