creek boat outfitting?
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:52 am
creek boat outfitting?
by greg
I am outfitting an h2 for a creek boat and would like to hear some opinions on how to outfit a c1 for creeking.
I am leaning toward a strapless bulkhead type system with toe blocks (like the superfly )because I like how easy to get in and out of but I have heard that having toe blocks can be bad in a pin situation.
I am leaning away from straps because I like a really tight fit in my boats and strap myself in so tight I think it would be as difficult to get out of if necessary.
Also, if I were to piton would either system be easier on the body? Any and all help is appreciated!!
Posted on May 30, 2002, 8:59 AM
Outfitting...
by Sir Adam
Greetings...
I'd say you're definitely on the right track with your thoughts-in the end it's a personal decision, but here's my thinking...I wanted a system I could get out of if I had to without the use of much arm movement (munched / dislocated shoulder worries in my area due to the particular creeks available), yet held me in tight. What I'm going with for now are a hip grabber (MUCH better boat feel) and straps, but no toe blocks. The straps hold me in TIGHT, especially with the hipgrabber, but it IS possible (especially when upside-down) to get out of the boat without unstrapping both straps. I've also got quite a bit of minicell all over the place:)
Good luck, and post what you find works!
C-ya on the Rivah!
Sir Adam
P.S. I'm currently running an "old school" creek boat-a Cascade. Yup, it's big, and can be a challenge to find an eddy, but it works....
Posted on May 30, 2002, 9:13 AM
how I did my Y...
by James
I have creeked a bit in my skeeter, and last fall set up a Y. I have a bulkhead for my knees that only cups the ends of my knees, maybe 3-4 inches up, so my legs are not too far in, thinking of a vertical pin. I then have thigh straps that I can get out of without undoing them, old paddle shaft runs the length of the cockpit to give the hull a little support for folds, serious bumps etc. Consider supporting the hull somehow, with the kayak seat out you`re losing some of the boat`s strength.
I used it once, on my first and only run (so far!) of the Bottom Moose. Worked pretty good, though one set I was almost falling out after getting worked a couple of times and rolling repeatedly. One swim (directly above Cristal! yikes!) had me out of the boat quite easily pulling the skirt, but then stuck in a hole, out of my boat, whoops getting off topic.
This year I`m putting in a seatbelt as well, which I will use sometimes. nothing behind the feet at all, so that it may be possible to swim free in the perfect situation without undoing the seatbelt.
Creeking in C1 is pretty dam intense.
Posted on May 30, 2002, 10:31 AM
Bottom Moose...
by Sir Adam
Greetings...
Did you run all of the Bottom, or just the second half (Agers, Powerline, Sure form, Crystal)? I've run the first half in my Cascade (Fowlersville, Funnel, Knifes Edge, Double Drop), and the entire thing quite a bit in a raft <gasp> (what can I say, I was working for a rafting company...it was my *job* ).
It certainly IS exciting!
C-ya!
Sir Adam
Posted on May 30, 2002, 11:08 AM
Bottom Moose
by James
I ran from Fowlersville falls down to below Crystal, did the one smaller drop of two below Crystal as well. Fowlersville was amazing, especially watching people run the hero lines, Sureform I ended up taking an interesting line down the right side, actually had "interesting" lines in a number of spots.
Don't know how many on this board have been to the Beaver River NY releases, quite fun creeking, billed as a good introduction to steep creeking for those who want to try it out. Three different sections of varying difficulties. Ran some of it last year in a group of 4 OC1s. Perhaps a mini-armada if they have the Beaver River Rendevous this year?
Posted on May 30, 2002, 12:37 PM
Interested...
by Sir Adam
Greetings...
I've heard a bit about the Beaver but never ventured over there (with the Hudson practically at my doorstep I often don't go far...), but I would definitely be interested!
C-ya!
Sir Adam
Posted on May 30, 2002, 12:40 PM
Creek boat outfitting
by Brian
I also like the bulkhead type system because I like how easy it is to get in and out of and the fact that it holds the paddler in tight. I have not tried it with toe blocks but have heard of boaters using foam toe blocks that have some give to them compared to some sort of solid toe blocks.
No comment on pitoning.
Question. How do you find the narrowness of the front of the keyhole cockpit of the h2?
Posted on May 30, 2002, 10:40 AM
H2 outfitting
by Eric
Brian,
I found the front of the cockpit too narrow, so I took a hacksaw to the thigh hook mounting screw holes on my brand new 245. Even with that plastic cut out, the boat is slightly narrower for my legs than any C1 I have paddled. But not a problem, as I found the boat very stable in turbulent water;a joy to paddle . Incidentally, I installed the dagger C1 pedestal and shimmed the inside lip of the cockpit with thin minicell for my hips. It works fine.
Good luck with your outfitting,
Eric
Posted on May 30, 2002, 7:59 PM
h2 cockpit ...
by greg
I found the cockpit very narrow ,even with my skinny legs. I'll probably end up grinding it down some with a disc sander. I'll take photos and let you guys know when I complete the project.
Posted on May 31, 2002, 1:44 PM
Bulkheads
by Bryant
I have copied my Skeeter outfitting and installed it in my BigGun C-1. The top 6 inches of the bulkhead is removable giving access to the front of the boat and allowing for some adjustability. I use minicell toe blocks, faced with neoprene, which are 4" wide and 1.25" high. They are set so my toes barely touch. Its easy to get feet above or wide of blocks so as not to hinder getting out. Also have Delerious set up same way - just tighter. Works for me.
Posted on May 30, 2002, 1:31 PM
one more question...
by greg
Thanks for all of the feedback!
Bryant- do you have any pics of your outfitting?
I'd like to see how the top comes off to access the front of the boat. Your outfitting sounds exactly like what I want to do.
Posted on May 31, 2002, 1:35 PM
Bulkhead
by Bryant
Sorry no pics - I will describe. Saddle is longer than cockpit by several inches each end. I use 7" high saddle with 6.5"-7" back. Bottom of saddle is contoured to bottom of boat length and width. Back of saddle is contoured to a snug fit under the rear deck. The saddle from backrest foward is a level cut extending under the cockpit rim. Wedges are glued to the saddle and also the sides of the boat and contoured with the kneepads to make a well fitting knee cup level with the top of the saddle. This goes the full width of the boat.The bulkhead matches the top of kneecups and saddle and is contoured for a really snug fit under the sides of the cockpit. The bulkhead is raised inside the cockpit rim and fits snugly to the curve of the rim.It is carved out for the legs to match the kneecups.To install just simply take top part and wedge at an angle under the cockpit rim and twist around until it lines up with both ends under the rim. I make a hole thru bulkhead into the saddle the size of my waterbottle and the waterbottle locks things together.Other notes: I make saddle and bulkhead from scratch using M200 minicell 3.25" thick and glueing together. The kneecups and bulkhead slant foward (bottom to top) at +/- 30 degrees or perpendicular to slant of leg while sitting in boat. Since bulkhead is cut (bandsaw) on a slant it is 7" front to back. The bulkhead is positioned so my knees just clear the top as I slide in - about 16" from the backrest for me.This is not easy to make - it fits all contours of the boat and really supports the bottom of the boat over 3'. Many angle and compound cuts. Just look at a Skeeter or Sp.Fly system for the basic idea. I am often asked where I "bought" my saddles.
Posted on May 31, 2002, 4:32 PM
by greg
I am outfitting an h2 for a creek boat and would like to hear some opinions on how to outfit a c1 for creeking.
I am leaning toward a strapless bulkhead type system with toe blocks (like the superfly )because I like how easy to get in and out of but I have heard that having toe blocks can be bad in a pin situation.
I am leaning away from straps because I like a really tight fit in my boats and strap myself in so tight I think it would be as difficult to get out of if necessary.
Also, if I were to piton would either system be easier on the body? Any and all help is appreciated!!
Posted on May 30, 2002, 8:59 AM
Outfitting...
by Sir Adam
Greetings...
I'd say you're definitely on the right track with your thoughts-in the end it's a personal decision, but here's my thinking...I wanted a system I could get out of if I had to without the use of much arm movement (munched / dislocated shoulder worries in my area due to the particular creeks available), yet held me in tight. What I'm going with for now are a hip grabber (MUCH better boat feel) and straps, but no toe blocks. The straps hold me in TIGHT, especially with the hipgrabber, but it IS possible (especially when upside-down) to get out of the boat without unstrapping both straps. I've also got quite a bit of minicell all over the place:)
Good luck, and post what you find works!
C-ya on the Rivah!
Sir Adam
P.S. I'm currently running an "old school" creek boat-a Cascade. Yup, it's big, and can be a challenge to find an eddy, but it works....
Posted on May 30, 2002, 9:13 AM
how I did my Y...
by James
I have creeked a bit in my skeeter, and last fall set up a Y. I have a bulkhead for my knees that only cups the ends of my knees, maybe 3-4 inches up, so my legs are not too far in, thinking of a vertical pin. I then have thigh straps that I can get out of without undoing them, old paddle shaft runs the length of the cockpit to give the hull a little support for folds, serious bumps etc. Consider supporting the hull somehow, with the kayak seat out you`re losing some of the boat`s strength.
I used it once, on my first and only run (so far!) of the Bottom Moose. Worked pretty good, though one set I was almost falling out after getting worked a couple of times and rolling repeatedly. One swim (directly above Cristal! yikes!) had me out of the boat quite easily pulling the skirt, but then stuck in a hole, out of my boat, whoops getting off topic.
This year I`m putting in a seatbelt as well, which I will use sometimes. nothing behind the feet at all, so that it may be possible to swim free in the perfect situation without undoing the seatbelt.
Creeking in C1 is pretty dam intense.
Posted on May 30, 2002, 10:31 AM
Bottom Moose...
by Sir Adam
Greetings...
Did you run all of the Bottom, or just the second half (Agers, Powerline, Sure form, Crystal)? I've run the first half in my Cascade (Fowlersville, Funnel, Knifes Edge, Double Drop), and the entire thing quite a bit in a raft <gasp> (what can I say, I was working for a rafting company...it was my *job* ).
It certainly IS exciting!
C-ya!
Sir Adam
Posted on May 30, 2002, 11:08 AM
Bottom Moose
by James
I ran from Fowlersville falls down to below Crystal, did the one smaller drop of two below Crystal as well. Fowlersville was amazing, especially watching people run the hero lines, Sureform I ended up taking an interesting line down the right side, actually had "interesting" lines in a number of spots.
Don't know how many on this board have been to the Beaver River NY releases, quite fun creeking, billed as a good introduction to steep creeking for those who want to try it out. Three different sections of varying difficulties. Ran some of it last year in a group of 4 OC1s. Perhaps a mini-armada if they have the Beaver River Rendevous this year?
Posted on May 30, 2002, 12:37 PM
Interested...
by Sir Adam
Greetings...
I've heard a bit about the Beaver but never ventured over there (with the Hudson practically at my doorstep I often don't go far...), but I would definitely be interested!
C-ya!
Sir Adam
Posted on May 30, 2002, 12:40 PM
Creek boat outfitting
by Brian
I also like the bulkhead type system because I like how easy it is to get in and out of and the fact that it holds the paddler in tight. I have not tried it with toe blocks but have heard of boaters using foam toe blocks that have some give to them compared to some sort of solid toe blocks.
No comment on pitoning.
Question. How do you find the narrowness of the front of the keyhole cockpit of the h2?
Posted on May 30, 2002, 10:40 AM
H2 outfitting
by Eric
Brian,
I found the front of the cockpit too narrow, so I took a hacksaw to the thigh hook mounting screw holes on my brand new 245. Even with that plastic cut out, the boat is slightly narrower for my legs than any C1 I have paddled. But not a problem, as I found the boat very stable in turbulent water;a joy to paddle . Incidentally, I installed the dagger C1 pedestal and shimmed the inside lip of the cockpit with thin minicell for my hips. It works fine.
Good luck with your outfitting,
Eric
Posted on May 30, 2002, 7:59 PM
h2 cockpit ...
by greg
I found the cockpit very narrow ,even with my skinny legs. I'll probably end up grinding it down some with a disc sander. I'll take photos and let you guys know when I complete the project.
Posted on May 31, 2002, 1:44 PM
Bulkheads
by Bryant
I have copied my Skeeter outfitting and installed it in my BigGun C-1. The top 6 inches of the bulkhead is removable giving access to the front of the boat and allowing for some adjustability. I use minicell toe blocks, faced with neoprene, which are 4" wide and 1.25" high. They are set so my toes barely touch. Its easy to get feet above or wide of blocks so as not to hinder getting out. Also have Delerious set up same way - just tighter. Works for me.
Posted on May 30, 2002, 1:31 PM
one more question...
by greg
Thanks for all of the feedback!
Bryant- do you have any pics of your outfitting?
I'd like to see how the top comes off to access the front of the boat. Your outfitting sounds exactly like what I want to do.
Posted on May 31, 2002, 1:35 PM
Bulkhead
by Bryant
Sorry no pics - I will describe. Saddle is longer than cockpit by several inches each end. I use 7" high saddle with 6.5"-7" back. Bottom of saddle is contoured to bottom of boat length and width. Back of saddle is contoured to a snug fit under the rear deck. The saddle from backrest foward is a level cut extending under the cockpit rim. Wedges are glued to the saddle and also the sides of the boat and contoured with the kneepads to make a well fitting knee cup level with the top of the saddle. This goes the full width of the boat.The bulkhead matches the top of kneecups and saddle and is contoured for a really snug fit under the sides of the cockpit. The bulkhead is raised inside the cockpit rim and fits snugly to the curve of the rim.It is carved out for the legs to match the kneecups.To install just simply take top part and wedge at an angle under the cockpit rim and twist around until it lines up with both ends under the rim. I make a hole thru bulkhead into the saddle the size of my waterbottle and the waterbottle locks things together.Other notes: I make saddle and bulkhead from scratch using M200 minicell 3.25" thick and glueing together. The kneecups and bulkhead slant foward (bottom to top) at +/- 30 degrees or perpendicular to slant of leg while sitting in boat. Since bulkhead is cut (bandsaw) on a slant it is 7" front to back. The bulkhead is positioned so my knees just clear the top as I slide in - about 16" from the backrest for me.This is not easy to make - it fits all contours of the boat and really supports the bottom of the boat over 3'. Many angle and compound cuts. Just look at a Skeeter or Sp.Fly system for the basic idea. I am often asked where I "bought" my saddles.
Posted on May 31, 2002, 4:32 PM