Fast Cruising Surfer
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:12 pm
Fast Cruising Surfer
by Charlie
I'm thinking about a new boat and was interested in opinions. Cut down slalom boat (fanatic) or something like a full cut viper or acrobat...? Looking for something that's about 12' by 28" and enough cockpit depth 9" to be somewhat comfortable. I realize this would take some modification. Thoughts? Anything used on the market?
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 4:55 AM
Viper...
by Sir Adam
If you're looking for a nice cruiser that is a GREAT surfer and comfortable, get a Viper (watch for them used or have PS Composites make one for you). A cut down slalom boat or a full-cut acrobat will both be much edgier than the Viper.
If you're looking for something a bit more high volume you might want to check out a Magnet or Hornet.
Pictures of them all at http://www.cboats.net under Rec Boats....
C-ya!
Sir Adam
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 6:28 AM
Armchair thoughts on boats
by DaveM
Glad to see another glass convert. Here are a couple of thoughts.
1. Your comment about 9" of depth at the cockpit and a cut down slalom boat, Viper or Acrobat may be problematic.
2. I'm not sure how big a Viper or Acrobat is at the cockpit (Adam or others will know) but my memory is that they are kinda small.
3. I think the Viper is probably the best front surfing C-1 around. Good hull speed because of the length and the bow has a nice upward flip to keep it from pearling, yet not too much that you can't bang off enders.
4. Downside on the Viper is that it's a full width hull (I believe loosly based on a Cudamax) and as such will be a lot slower than a newer designed slalom boat. (Newer meaning anything designed after 1989, Fanatic 1)
5. If comfort means a higher seat height then you may want a larger volume boat like Angie's (formerly Scott B's) Hornet or even a Hahn. (A Hahn is for sale below) The Hahn may look like a behmoth from a volume standpoint, but it will handle great, front surf like a champ (on even the smallest wave, be very foregiving in a side surf, and ferry very well and be very roomy. One downside to larger volume boats is that you won't be able to delve into the world of edges, smaller volume boats allow you to do pivot turns, squirts etc.
6. I don't think many people would use the word squirt C-1 and comfort in the same sentence (Huge being the exception, but then again he's got his own set of issues). Most squirters have their seat set very low so their center of gravity is as low as possible. This allows them to do the things that squirters love to do
7. If I had any advise at all it would be to buy a boat that works for your weight and height. If you give us those particulars, we can give you lot's of monday morning quarterback advice about boats that might be fun.
8. The most important thing to remember is that ALL glass boats are more fun than milk jugs. If your real adventursome, you can be like Adam and own one of every kind of C-1 out there.
Good luck..DM
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 7:48 AM
more info
by Charlie
Thanks to Dave and Adam for your responses. Comfort is certainly a relative term. I was hoping to have a seat height of approx 6.25". The main concern as it relates to comfort is that the front cockpit rim doesn't cut off all circulation from thighs down. I have an old fanatic that is about 8" deep, I think, and it rubs somewhat. Understand I may have to live with that but an inch more would be great.
I am 5'11" and 190lbs with thick legs, but I'm pretty flexible and would trade some discomfort to keep it fairly low volume.
Viper sounds enticing. Please keep those thoughts coming. Great stuff.
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 8:27 AM
Comfort Cruisin'
by Sir Adam
Greetings....
With that info, I'd really suggest a Viper. I have mine set up as a boat for novices to try...as such the seat is NOT low (7.5" comes to mind:) ) and is SUPER comfortable. Pictures at:
http://www.cboats.net/viper.html
and some outfitting shots
http://www.cboats.net/outfitting.html
It will be a bit slower than your old Fanatic (definitely) but also more stable. The bow is more forgiving (MUCH less edgy) as is the stern (although stern squirts are definitely possible...especially at your weight).
I will try and remember to measure the cockpit dimensions this evening and post.
Out of curiousity, where are you located? If you're within driving distance of upstate NY you may want to drop in for the Hudson Armada (you guessed it- http://www.cboats.net/hudsonarmada.html ), if not for the gorge on Saturday for the boat trying-out fest on Sunday.
C-ya!
Sir Adam
P.S. DaveM-I don't have 1 of EVERY Cboat...the Hearn / Lugbill designs alone would bankrupt me!...and some squirts ARE comfortable..well, sort of...
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 10:13 AM
Viperrrrr
by Scott B.
I am of similar build to you, 5'10" ish and about 225, and have paddled a Viper. Not Adam's however, I didn't fit, not even close! I wonder if he has reworked that outfitting - he had some sort of spare paddle blades that fit under your armpits like crutches, he called them "beaver tails" ...
The Viper I was able to paddle is owned by a dude of similar weight but greater height (6'+?) and it is adequately roomy for both of us. I do not know if this was any sort of standard pedestal that was put in this boat, but it was very wide and I'd have to do some carving on it if it were my own (made it a little hard to get feet in and out to me). My impressions of the boat were all favorable - it was plenty fast (though I normally paddle "milk jugs"), very stable, and stern squirted like a dream. It was so stable on end, I could park it and carry on a conversation. The bow, even at my weight, was not going anywhere unless you really wanted it to, ie on a good wave or pour over - I think maybe a low cut would be bow squirtable.
I'd love one, but since the boat shed is full right now I'd have to keep it in the living room and my wife would probably notice it...
Scott
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 11:50 AM
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
by Sir Adam
I am currently changing my "beaver tails" over to "muskrat tails", slalom-boater style (foam encasing metal L bracket...images up under outfitting at CBoats (I've already switched the Acrobat over, still have to do the Viper...). With the "new" outfitting I expect it would be more forgiving to certain individuals:).
PS Composites has the Viper Mold...someone should have a new one built (other than me:) ) to keep these awesome boats in circulation!
C-ya!
Sir Adam of Beaver Tails?
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 1:21 PM
More boat musings
by DaveM
If you decide the Viper is the boat for you, but the cockpit is a little tight (ie it's not big enough in diameter) then you can have a boat made with a slightly larger cokpit. You don't want to get to large or you'll have trouble getting a slalom skirt to fit,but a push out here or there may make all the difference in the world.
I'm about 5'10" and 185lbs (wish I was 175lbs) so were not too far apart.
May also want to try lowering your seat a little as well, this will allow you to better fit into the boat....Good luck..DM
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 2:16 PM
Viper cockpit specs.
by Sir Adam
Greetings...
Cockpit is:
20.5" long by 18.5" wide (interior dimensions)
8" high where your thighs would be
7" behind the seat (or so-the deck is actually at about 7.5"-the same height as my seat)
The cockpit is also square-ish rather than truly round...I find this to be very room and actually have a bulkhead installed (mind you I'm 5'9" and 160lbs...).
As has been mentioned, you can do ANYTHING with a glass boat..want a bigger cockpit rim? MAKE ONE!
Well, time to finish removing the "beaver tails" from the Viper....
C-ya IN the Rivah (along with Huge!)
Sir Adam
P.S. I layed up the new deck for the Mave this evening. It's going to be a SICK boat (hopefully as in fun not as in ill...).
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 6:06 PM
Comfortable c-1 squrit boats
by huge
I do happen to find my acrobat comfortable despite what anyone else may think of my sanity (or lack thereof). For what it's worth here are some stats to consider for my acrobat.
Just over 10' long
cockpit rim is 7 1/4" at the knees
seat is 5 1/2" after fluffing the seat up
the cockpit is 23" long
I weigh about 170, I'm 6'2" and I'm very limber
The basis being that this is a high performance boat compared with the uncut version, I find that it is tough for me to paddle most anything else without comparing it to my acrobat which is almost as fast as a race boat, more slicy than a rodeo boat, and will do mystery moves to boot. This is a boat that will put you back into boating class II-III for fun.
Now the tough part, finding a boat. If you are in the used market, I wish you luck, these boats are rare but I am sure that there are a few out there still. If you go the new route rest assured that what ever you want you can get it. Want a higher cockpit? It can be custom cut to whatever height you desire. Bigger cockpit rim? No problemo! The beauty of glass when you get to the low volume boats is that you can get one tailored to you, and your paddling style. Visit this link to see the level to which glass boats can be tweaked.
http://www.pscomposites.com/html/float_cut.html
And of course Sir Adam's site is a good source of info on all things C-1. If I had to pick between anything else and acrobat... well, no choice really there for me. Good luck and C-ya in the river.
Huge
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 5:18 PM
by Charlie
I'm thinking about a new boat and was interested in opinions. Cut down slalom boat (fanatic) or something like a full cut viper or acrobat...? Looking for something that's about 12' by 28" and enough cockpit depth 9" to be somewhat comfortable. I realize this would take some modification. Thoughts? Anything used on the market?
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 4:55 AM
Viper...
by Sir Adam
If you're looking for a nice cruiser that is a GREAT surfer and comfortable, get a Viper (watch for them used or have PS Composites make one for you). A cut down slalom boat or a full-cut acrobat will both be much edgier than the Viper.
If you're looking for something a bit more high volume you might want to check out a Magnet or Hornet.
Pictures of them all at http://www.cboats.net under Rec Boats....
C-ya!
Sir Adam
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 6:28 AM
Armchair thoughts on boats
by DaveM
Glad to see another glass convert. Here are a couple of thoughts.
1. Your comment about 9" of depth at the cockpit and a cut down slalom boat, Viper or Acrobat may be problematic.
2. I'm not sure how big a Viper or Acrobat is at the cockpit (Adam or others will know) but my memory is that they are kinda small.
3. I think the Viper is probably the best front surfing C-1 around. Good hull speed because of the length and the bow has a nice upward flip to keep it from pearling, yet not too much that you can't bang off enders.
4. Downside on the Viper is that it's a full width hull (I believe loosly based on a Cudamax) and as such will be a lot slower than a newer designed slalom boat. (Newer meaning anything designed after 1989, Fanatic 1)
5. If comfort means a higher seat height then you may want a larger volume boat like Angie's (formerly Scott B's) Hornet or even a Hahn. (A Hahn is for sale below) The Hahn may look like a behmoth from a volume standpoint, but it will handle great, front surf like a champ (on even the smallest wave, be very foregiving in a side surf, and ferry very well and be very roomy. One downside to larger volume boats is that you won't be able to delve into the world of edges, smaller volume boats allow you to do pivot turns, squirts etc.
6. I don't think many people would use the word squirt C-1 and comfort in the same sentence (Huge being the exception, but then again he's got his own set of issues). Most squirters have their seat set very low so their center of gravity is as low as possible. This allows them to do the things that squirters love to do
7. If I had any advise at all it would be to buy a boat that works for your weight and height. If you give us those particulars, we can give you lot's of monday morning quarterback advice about boats that might be fun.
8. The most important thing to remember is that ALL glass boats are more fun than milk jugs. If your real adventursome, you can be like Adam and own one of every kind of C-1 out there.
Good luck..DM
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 7:48 AM
more info
by Charlie
Thanks to Dave and Adam for your responses. Comfort is certainly a relative term. I was hoping to have a seat height of approx 6.25". The main concern as it relates to comfort is that the front cockpit rim doesn't cut off all circulation from thighs down. I have an old fanatic that is about 8" deep, I think, and it rubs somewhat. Understand I may have to live with that but an inch more would be great.
I am 5'11" and 190lbs with thick legs, but I'm pretty flexible and would trade some discomfort to keep it fairly low volume.
Viper sounds enticing. Please keep those thoughts coming. Great stuff.
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 8:27 AM
Comfort Cruisin'
by Sir Adam
Greetings....
With that info, I'd really suggest a Viper. I have mine set up as a boat for novices to try...as such the seat is NOT low (7.5" comes to mind:) ) and is SUPER comfortable. Pictures at:
http://www.cboats.net/viper.html
and some outfitting shots
http://www.cboats.net/outfitting.html
It will be a bit slower than your old Fanatic (definitely) but also more stable. The bow is more forgiving (MUCH less edgy) as is the stern (although stern squirts are definitely possible...especially at your weight).
I will try and remember to measure the cockpit dimensions this evening and post.
Out of curiousity, where are you located? If you're within driving distance of upstate NY you may want to drop in for the Hudson Armada (you guessed it- http://www.cboats.net/hudsonarmada.html ), if not for the gorge on Saturday for the boat trying-out fest on Sunday.
C-ya!
Sir Adam
P.S. DaveM-I don't have 1 of EVERY Cboat...the Hearn / Lugbill designs alone would bankrupt me!...and some squirts ARE comfortable..well, sort of...
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 10:13 AM
Viperrrrr
by Scott B.
I am of similar build to you, 5'10" ish and about 225, and have paddled a Viper. Not Adam's however, I didn't fit, not even close! I wonder if he has reworked that outfitting - he had some sort of spare paddle blades that fit under your armpits like crutches, he called them "beaver tails" ...
The Viper I was able to paddle is owned by a dude of similar weight but greater height (6'+?) and it is adequately roomy for both of us. I do not know if this was any sort of standard pedestal that was put in this boat, but it was very wide and I'd have to do some carving on it if it were my own (made it a little hard to get feet in and out to me). My impressions of the boat were all favorable - it was plenty fast (though I normally paddle "milk jugs"), very stable, and stern squirted like a dream. It was so stable on end, I could park it and carry on a conversation. The bow, even at my weight, was not going anywhere unless you really wanted it to, ie on a good wave or pour over - I think maybe a low cut would be bow squirtable.
I'd love one, but since the boat shed is full right now I'd have to keep it in the living room and my wife would probably notice it...
Scott
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 11:50 AM
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
by Sir Adam
I am currently changing my "beaver tails" over to "muskrat tails", slalom-boater style (foam encasing metal L bracket...images up under outfitting at CBoats (I've already switched the Acrobat over, still have to do the Viper...). With the "new" outfitting I expect it would be more forgiving to certain individuals:).
PS Composites has the Viper Mold...someone should have a new one built (other than me:) ) to keep these awesome boats in circulation!
C-ya!
Sir Adam of Beaver Tails?
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 1:21 PM
More boat musings
by DaveM
If you decide the Viper is the boat for you, but the cockpit is a little tight (ie it's not big enough in diameter) then you can have a boat made with a slightly larger cokpit. You don't want to get to large or you'll have trouble getting a slalom skirt to fit,but a push out here or there may make all the difference in the world.
I'm about 5'10" and 185lbs (wish I was 175lbs) so were not too far apart.
May also want to try lowering your seat a little as well, this will allow you to better fit into the boat....Good luck..DM
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 2:16 PM
Viper cockpit specs.
by Sir Adam
Greetings...
Cockpit is:
20.5" long by 18.5" wide (interior dimensions)
8" high where your thighs would be
7" behind the seat (or so-the deck is actually at about 7.5"-the same height as my seat)
The cockpit is also square-ish rather than truly round...I find this to be very room and actually have a bulkhead installed (mind you I'm 5'9" and 160lbs...).
As has been mentioned, you can do ANYTHING with a glass boat..want a bigger cockpit rim? MAKE ONE!
Well, time to finish removing the "beaver tails" from the Viper....
C-ya IN the Rivah (along with Huge!)
Sir Adam
P.S. I layed up the new deck for the Mave this evening. It's going to be a SICK boat (hopefully as in fun not as in ill...).
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 6:06 PM
Comfortable c-1 squrit boats
by huge
I do happen to find my acrobat comfortable despite what anyone else may think of my sanity (or lack thereof). For what it's worth here are some stats to consider for my acrobat.
Just over 10' long
cockpit rim is 7 1/4" at the knees
seat is 5 1/2" after fluffing the seat up
the cockpit is 23" long
I weigh about 170, I'm 6'2" and I'm very limber
The basis being that this is a high performance boat compared with the uncut version, I find that it is tough for me to paddle most anything else without comparing it to my acrobat which is almost as fast as a race boat, more slicy than a rodeo boat, and will do mystery moves to boot. This is a boat that will put you back into boating class II-III for fun.
Now the tough part, finding a boat. If you are in the used market, I wish you luck, these boats are rare but I am sure that there are a few out there still. If you go the new route rest assured that what ever you want you can get it. Want a higher cockpit? It can be custom cut to whatever height you desire. Bigger cockpit rim? No problemo! The beauty of glass when you get to the low volume boats is that you can get one tailored to you, and your paddling style. Visit this link to see the level to which glass boats can be tweaked.
http://www.pscomposites.com/html/float_cut.html
And of course Sir Adam's site is a good source of info on all things C-1. If I had to pick between anything else and acrobat... well, no choice really there for me. Good luck and C-ya in the river.
Huge
Posted on Jun 12, 2002, 5:18 PM