Spoon Blade 101
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:56 pm
Spoon Blade 101
by Kevin
or, Should I Get a Spoon Blade?
I just tried a spoon blade paddle for the first time on the Ocoee last weekend- and I loved it! I also hated it.
I loved the way I could slice it out of the water easily after an offside forward stroke. The paddle I'm using now has an oversized blade, which I'm sick of, and that tends to get hung up when I try to slice the paddle up out the water at the end of an offside forward stroke. The spoon blade seemed to cure that.
But I hated the hard catch, and the "wobbly-ness" at the beggining of a forward stroke. I'm told that goes away once you get used to it. True?
My understanding is that the whole spoon blade concept comes from racing- the idea is that the catch phase of the stroke comes sooner, which makes your stroke X percent more powerfull/efficient. But I ain't racin', and there is plenty to be gained in just cleaning up my forward strokes without needing any specially designed paddle to do it.
I've heard another school of thought which says that if you're a recreational boater, and you want to paddle all day comfortably, the last thing you want is a blade with a hard catch, because that's much more stressfull on the elbow. My elbow gets enough stress as it is. I'd be interested in any theories out there on spoon blade vs. regular old blade. All I know is oversize blade BAD.
And what about the easy "release" from the offside? Is that a novice/intermediate thing, and I'd be better off cleaning up my form when I'm moving from an offside forward stroke to my onside, rather than buying a spoon blade to make it easier?
Also, does anybody make a spoon blade without the squared off tip?
Thanks,
Kevin
Posted on Jul 11, 2002, 3:49 PM
Blades
by Jim
From the perspective of a casual paddler, I paddle every other weekend or so, I think it is good to have several paddles. I don't have a spoon yet but I may get one. I have a wide blade 54" paddle that I use on shallow rivers or park and play. I also have a Norse 58" that I use most of the time because I'm tall and have a long reach so it seems more efficient to me. With both, on my offside stroke the paddle never leaves the water. At the end of the stroke I turn it parrallel to the boat and slide it forward. If you practice this, even if you are returning to your onside stroke it smooths the transition. Also it allows you to make stabilizing moves in the chop on your off side. As far as offsetting the strain on your elbow there is a school of thought that is promoted by a paddler named Tom Foster where you keep your shaft arm fixed and use the rotation of the torso to move the boat about the blade. It requires a lot of practice which I haven't, but in the long run will allow you to conserve a lot of energy when running a river. It forces you to develop the muscles in your torso which is where you have the most boat control, especially if you are a C1-er. Watch some slalom boaters and see how they handle the paddle it will be very beneficial. Get the spoon but don't throw away the other.
Jim
Posted on Jul 11, 2002, 6:43 PM
Go spoon!
by KNeal
It's good for ya! I've been using a spoon-blade paddle for several years and really enjoy the power I can generate without great effort. Getting a sore forearm from paddling most often results from pulling with the arm or holding the shaft really tight (like when you run the Upper Gauley or Upper "Yawk" for the first dozen times,like me). My forearms have never gotten sore after the switch and after learning how to use torso rotation while keeping my shaft arm straight. What Jim described in his post about rotation and off-side in-water recovery is pretty dead-on. Practice those techniques and look at Mitchell paddles, expensive, but well designed blades.
KNeal
Posted on Jul 11, 2002, 9:24 PM
Paddle Blades
by DaveM
Couple of thoughts.
1. The shimmy symptom you describe might be a function of the type of paddle you were using. Often when a paddle "shimmys" or cavitates on the pull stroke it's because the back of the blade isn't designed correctly and water doesn't flow smoothly over the back of the blade. You will notice a similar trait as you dufeck the blade through the water (Most notable on offside recovery's)
2. I think if you were paddling 8 hours a day for several weeks on a lake for example, you would want a paddle designed for that type of repetition, but for whitewater, I think your fine with a spoon blade, plus you need the power. My guess is that the person who told you don't want a spoon blade if you paddle a lot probably doesn't paddle as much as say your average slalom racer in training (two hour workouts, twice a day every day).
3. Sounds like you need a narrower paddle. Paddle width is personal preference, but if your paddle is bothering you, causing pain or you are stumbling over it, sounds like a narrower paddle would help.
4. Most spoon blade paddles aren't designed to pry a truck out a ditch like a Norse is. The trade off is generally going to be performance for durability. I don't know of any high performance paddles that are as durable as a Norse and a Norse certainly wouldn't be described as a high performance paddle.
5. I have a couple of paddles all of which are carbon shaft, carbon spoon blade. I try and take care of them and they seem to last. But then again I paddle a glass boat so our definition of taking care of something some would describe as ridiculous.
Good luck and please report back how the search goes...DM
Posted on Jul 12, 2002, 6:03 AM
FS: Norse spoon-blade canoe paddle
by Roy
Still have this new (used once), all-Kevlar bladed, spoon-bladed, oval shaft, Norse for sale.
59.75"
29.5 oz.
$80 including parcel post to you.
Please email me direct: ir_hunter@hotmail.com
Posted on Jul 12, 2002, 2:58 PM
I agree with KNeal... (long)
by Mike W.
Go with a spoon blade. Last year I got a spoon & love it. A buddy bought the same manufacturer, length, layup (wood shaft / carbon blade), & grip, but with a straight blade. We swapped paddles one day & his did not have as good a bite as my spoon. At first I thought I liked what felt like more flex in his paddle. I'm very happy with my spoon & will not trade.
I have not noticed any wobble with my blade.
Ever just miss a ferry or a good surf wave, or gotten trashed in a hole that you almost missed? Racing or playing, if the design helps your power & efficiency, it will help you make the moves that you need to make.
Hard catch? It's up to you as to how much pressure you put into it.
If you don't like the squared off tip, just do like I do & beat the mess out of a bunch of rocks. They'll round out. ha ha ha But think about it, squared off tips give you more surface area on your blade. That gives more bite. Think of it as traction.
This is only my oppinion. I encourage anyone to try a bunch of paddles of varying length, design & material to see what combination they like. Your paddle is what you have in your hands the entire time that you are on the water (ok, you try to have it in your hands). My whitewater paddle has a wood shaft. To me, there is nothing like the feel of wood. I give up the wood shaft in favor of light weight carbon-fiber for the marathons though.
Mike W.
Posted on Jul 19, 2002, 6:46 PM
by Kevin
or, Should I Get a Spoon Blade?
I just tried a spoon blade paddle for the first time on the Ocoee last weekend- and I loved it! I also hated it.
I loved the way I could slice it out of the water easily after an offside forward stroke. The paddle I'm using now has an oversized blade, which I'm sick of, and that tends to get hung up when I try to slice the paddle up out the water at the end of an offside forward stroke. The spoon blade seemed to cure that.
But I hated the hard catch, and the "wobbly-ness" at the beggining of a forward stroke. I'm told that goes away once you get used to it. True?
My understanding is that the whole spoon blade concept comes from racing- the idea is that the catch phase of the stroke comes sooner, which makes your stroke X percent more powerfull/efficient. But I ain't racin', and there is plenty to be gained in just cleaning up my forward strokes without needing any specially designed paddle to do it.
I've heard another school of thought which says that if you're a recreational boater, and you want to paddle all day comfortably, the last thing you want is a blade with a hard catch, because that's much more stressfull on the elbow. My elbow gets enough stress as it is. I'd be interested in any theories out there on spoon blade vs. regular old blade. All I know is oversize blade BAD.
And what about the easy "release" from the offside? Is that a novice/intermediate thing, and I'd be better off cleaning up my form when I'm moving from an offside forward stroke to my onside, rather than buying a spoon blade to make it easier?
Also, does anybody make a spoon blade without the squared off tip?
Thanks,
Kevin
Posted on Jul 11, 2002, 3:49 PM
Blades
by Jim
From the perspective of a casual paddler, I paddle every other weekend or so, I think it is good to have several paddles. I don't have a spoon yet but I may get one. I have a wide blade 54" paddle that I use on shallow rivers or park and play. I also have a Norse 58" that I use most of the time because I'm tall and have a long reach so it seems more efficient to me. With both, on my offside stroke the paddle never leaves the water. At the end of the stroke I turn it parrallel to the boat and slide it forward. If you practice this, even if you are returning to your onside stroke it smooths the transition. Also it allows you to make stabilizing moves in the chop on your off side. As far as offsetting the strain on your elbow there is a school of thought that is promoted by a paddler named Tom Foster where you keep your shaft arm fixed and use the rotation of the torso to move the boat about the blade. It requires a lot of practice which I haven't, but in the long run will allow you to conserve a lot of energy when running a river. It forces you to develop the muscles in your torso which is where you have the most boat control, especially if you are a C1-er. Watch some slalom boaters and see how they handle the paddle it will be very beneficial. Get the spoon but don't throw away the other.
Jim
Posted on Jul 11, 2002, 6:43 PM
Go spoon!
by KNeal
It's good for ya! I've been using a spoon-blade paddle for several years and really enjoy the power I can generate without great effort. Getting a sore forearm from paddling most often results from pulling with the arm or holding the shaft really tight (like when you run the Upper Gauley or Upper "Yawk" for the first dozen times,like me). My forearms have never gotten sore after the switch and after learning how to use torso rotation while keeping my shaft arm straight. What Jim described in his post about rotation and off-side in-water recovery is pretty dead-on. Practice those techniques and look at Mitchell paddles, expensive, but well designed blades.
KNeal
Posted on Jul 11, 2002, 9:24 PM
Paddle Blades
by DaveM
Couple of thoughts.
1. The shimmy symptom you describe might be a function of the type of paddle you were using. Often when a paddle "shimmys" or cavitates on the pull stroke it's because the back of the blade isn't designed correctly and water doesn't flow smoothly over the back of the blade. You will notice a similar trait as you dufeck the blade through the water (Most notable on offside recovery's)
2. I think if you were paddling 8 hours a day for several weeks on a lake for example, you would want a paddle designed for that type of repetition, but for whitewater, I think your fine with a spoon blade, plus you need the power. My guess is that the person who told you don't want a spoon blade if you paddle a lot probably doesn't paddle as much as say your average slalom racer in training (two hour workouts, twice a day every day).
3. Sounds like you need a narrower paddle. Paddle width is personal preference, but if your paddle is bothering you, causing pain or you are stumbling over it, sounds like a narrower paddle would help.
4. Most spoon blade paddles aren't designed to pry a truck out a ditch like a Norse is. The trade off is generally going to be performance for durability. I don't know of any high performance paddles that are as durable as a Norse and a Norse certainly wouldn't be described as a high performance paddle.
5. I have a couple of paddles all of which are carbon shaft, carbon spoon blade. I try and take care of them and they seem to last. But then again I paddle a glass boat so our definition of taking care of something some would describe as ridiculous.
Good luck and please report back how the search goes...DM
Posted on Jul 12, 2002, 6:03 AM
FS: Norse spoon-blade canoe paddle
by Roy
Still have this new (used once), all-Kevlar bladed, spoon-bladed, oval shaft, Norse for sale.
59.75"
29.5 oz.
$80 including parcel post to you.
Please email me direct: ir_hunter@hotmail.com
Posted on Jul 12, 2002, 2:58 PM
I agree with KNeal... (long)
by Mike W.
Go with a spoon blade. Last year I got a spoon & love it. A buddy bought the same manufacturer, length, layup (wood shaft / carbon blade), & grip, but with a straight blade. We swapped paddles one day & his did not have as good a bite as my spoon. At first I thought I liked what felt like more flex in his paddle. I'm very happy with my spoon & will not trade.
I have not noticed any wobble with my blade.
Ever just miss a ferry or a good surf wave, or gotten trashed in a hole that you almost missed? Racing or playing, if the design helps your power & efficiency, it will help you make the moves that you need to make.
Hard catch? It's up to you as to how much pressure you put into it.
If you don't like the squared off tip, just do like I do & beat the mess out of a bunch of rocks. They'll round out. ha ha ha But think about it, squared off tips give you more surface area on your blade. That gives more bite. Think of it as traction.
This is only my oppinion. I encourage anyone to try a bunch of paddles of varying length, design & material to see what combination they like. Your paddle is what you have in your hands the entire time that you are on the water (ok, you try to have it in your hands). My whitewater paddle has a wood shaft. To me, there is nothing like the feel of wood. I give up the wood shaft in favor of light weight carbon-fiber for the marathons though.
Mike W.
Posted on Jul 19, 2002, 6:46 PM