Dagger Cascade Crosslink repair
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:17 pm
Dagger Cascade Crosslink repair
by cnoble
My Cascade is cracking around the cockpit where the spray skirt band seats. I can not find an epoxy or glue that will stick to the crosslink. Welding or heating only shrinks or melts the material. Any ideas? Thanks!
Posted on Jan 24, 2003, 3:19 PM
Not a problem anymore......
by Ric Taylor
Hey, Noble;
I've got just the thing for you, 3M pretty much makes everything; in point of fact, they now have a glue specifically for linear polyethylene. It's called DP 8005 and it will glue almost anything (including concrete) to linear polyethylene. You gotta love the paddling industry; for years these idiots have been telling us that nothing works when gluing linear polyethylene, and it took me all of 7-8 minutes to find this stuff. Contact the 3M distributor near you and I'll bet they will be able to provide you with a sample. Be forewarned: it's not cheap; it only has about a 5-7 minutes working time, and it has to be applied with an applicator gun (it CANNOT be hand mixed) but it will glue anything to linear polyethylene, and I would be willing to bet that it will work for cross-linked polyethylene as well. Also, when I was talking to them about a year ago, they were talking about having a DP 8010 which had a longer working time, probably 10-12 minutes. Anyway, It worked BOMBER for installing all of my thigh straps, etc., on my Medieval, so I bet that it would work in your situation as well. Be sure to ask the 3M technician, of course.
If that doesn't work, there's another way involving making two cockpit rings out of fiberglass and resin, but it's an even more serious pain in the butt, so check out the glue first, and if that doesn't work, then get back in touch with me and I'll dredge my memory banks for the fiberglass layup solution.
Good luck, and let me know how it turns out either way,
Ric Taylor
Posted on Jan 25, 2003, 10:57 PM
Also.......
by Ric Taylor
Be sure, whatever you do to the crack, to drill a small hole at each end of the crack before you attempt any repair. This will help keep the crack from spreading. How big is the crack itself? Because there may be other ways to solve the problem if it's not too big at this point.
Again, good luck,
Ric Taylor
Posted on Jan 27, 2003, 12:39 AM
Thanks
by cnoble
Thanks for the info, I previously called the company that provided the material to Dagger and they gave me a wrong product number for possible adhesive. Dagger still swears that nothing will work, but we will see. I am in the Atlanta area and found a Dow distributor with the 8005, (and related acessories), in stock. A 35 ml dual pack with the related accessories will cost appox. $60.00 pre tax. I have already stop drilled the cracks prior to applying good old duct tape so I could use the boat on safe runs. The cracks extend around the front of the spray skirt rim, appox. 50% of the entire rim. Where possible, I'll try to bond the crack material to material. If that works I'll apply some material, (carbon tape, pvc, etc...), on the interior of the cracks, let it cure, and apply adhesive or sealant to the exterior. I dislike outfitting a new boat because of the confidence issue on wilderness runs, but I also hate throwing away a boat that I could lend to a friend or I could use while someone uses my other boats. I have a 30 year old fiberglass swamp canoe I used in the Everglades. I can not throw away a boat. I hope this works! I'll let you know how this works. Thanks again! By the way, automobile bug, tar and adhesive remover works great for getting the duct tape and related residue off the crosslink.
Posted on Jan 27, 2003, 4:17 PM
Mine Also.
by Dennis Krizek
My Cascade did the same. Cockpit lip cracked about 14 inches in front and rear where the lip meets the deck. I drilled 1/32 inche holes about 1 inch apart from inside the cockpit lip through the deck. Then I laced very thin stainless steel wire to tie the cockpit lip and deck together. I sealed the holes with two part epoxy. If you want to try and can't find any thin SS wire, I'd be happy to send you 3 or 4 feet. I have a spool.
Posted on Jan 29, 2003, 7:03 AM
Sew it up!
by cnoble
Sounds like an idea. I got the DP 8005 adhesive today and may try to apply tonight. If that does not work I will try the wire. What diameter is the wire and where did you get it? Thanks for the help.
Posted on Jan 29, 2003, 5:21 PM
let me know how the adhesive works
by Dennis Krizek
.....don't know the diameter, it's very fine 1/32...1/64 ???????, been in tool box for decades. Let me know how the adhesive works. thanks dennis
Posted on Jan 30, 2003, 12:42 PM
Results
by cnoble
Well gentlemen, the Dow DP 8005 did not stick to the cross link material. It stuck to everything else I tried to stick to the cross link, but the bond always broke at the cross link. I have no doubt that this adhesive would not stick to almost anything, but not the cross link. I tried with clear, vinyl fiber reinforced tubing, pvc, and some other things, including cross link to cross link. I left a message for the Dow saleman and I'll ask him about other Dow products. If he comes up with something that works I'll let you know. Thanks for the input anyway! I may have to bury my boat after all. I hope they bury the person who made this boat with this stuff in a cross link casket.
Posted on Feb 4, 2003, 12:13 PM
by cnoble
My Cascade is cracking around the cockpit where the spray skirt band seats. I can not find an epoxy or glue that will stick to the crosslink. Welding or heating only shrinks or melts the material. Any ideas? Thanks!
Posted on Jan 24, 2003, 3:19 PM
Not a problem anymore......
by Ric Taylor
Hey, Noble;
I've got just the thing for you, 3M pretty much makes everything; in point of fact, they now have a glue specifically for linear polyethylene. It's called DP 8005 and it will glue almost anything (including concrete) to linear polyethylene. You gotta love the paddling industry; for years these idiots have been telling us that nothing works when gluing linear polyethylene, and it took me all of 7-8 minutes to find this stuff. Contact the 3M distributor near you and I'll bet they will be able to provide you with a sample. Be forewarned: it's not cheap; it only has about a 5-7 minutes working time, and it has to be applied with an applicator gun (it CANNOT be hand mixed) but it will glue anything to linear polyethylene, and I would be willing to bet that it will work for cross-linked polyethylene as well. Also, when I was talking to them about a year ago, they were talking about having a DP 8010 which had a longer working time, probably 10-12 minutes. Anyway, It worked BOMBER for installing all of my thigh straps, etc., on my Medieval, so I bet that it would work in your situation as well. Be sure to ask the 3M technician, of course.
If that doesn't work, there's another way involving making two cockpit rings out of fiberglass and resin, but it's an even more serious pain in the butt, so check out the glue first, and if that doesn't work, then get back in touch with me and I'll dredge my memory banks for the fiberglass layup solution.
Good luck, and let me know how it turns out either way,
Ric Taylor
Posted on Jan 25, 2003, 10:57 PM
Also.......
by Ric Taylor
Be sure, whatever you do to the crack, to drill a small hole at each end of the crack before you attempt any repair. This will help keep the crack from spreading. How big is the crack itself? Because there may be other ways to solve the problem if it's not too big at this point.
Again, good luck,
Ric Taylor
Posted on Jan 27, 2003, 12:39 AM
Thanks
by cnoble
Thanks for the info, I previously called the company that provided the material to Dagger and they gave me a wrong product number for possible adhesive. Dagger still swears that nothing will work, but we will see. I am in the Atlanta area and found a Dow distributor with the 8005, (and related acessories), in stock. A 35 ml dual pack with the related accessories will cost appox. $60.00 pre tax. I have already stop drilled the cracks prior to applying good old duct tape so I could use the boat on safe runs. The cracks extend around the front of the spray skirt rim, appox. 50% of the entire rim. Where possible, I'll try to bond the crack material to material. If that works I'll apply some material, (carbon tape, pvc, etc...), on the interior of the cracks, let it cure, and apply adhesive or sealant to the exterior. I dislike outfitting a new boat because of the confidence issue on wilderness runs, but I also hate throwing away a boat that I could lend to a friend or I could use while someone uses my other boats. I have a 30 year old fiberglass swamp canoe I used in the Everglades. I can not throw away a boat. I hope this works! I'll let you know how this works. Thanks again! By the way, automobile bug, tar and adhesive remover works great for getting the duct tape and related residue off the crosslink.
Posted on Jan 27, 2003, 4:17 PM
Mine Also.
by Dennis Krizek
My Cascade did the same. Cockpit lip cracked about 14 inches in front and rear where the lip meets the deck. I drilled 1/32 inche holes about 1 inch apart from inside the cockpit lip through the deck. Then I laced very thin stainless steel wire to tie the cockpit lip and deck together. I sealed the holes with two part epoxy. If you want to try and can't find any thin SS wire, I'd be happy to send you 3 or 4 feet. I have a spool.
Posted on Jan 29, 2003, 7:03 AM
Sew it up!
by cnoble
Sounds like an idea. I got the DP 8005 adhesive today and may try to apply tonight. If that does not work I will try the wire. What diameter is the wire and where did you get it? Thanks for the help.
Posted on Jan 29, 2003, 5:21 PM
let me know how the adhesive works
by Dennis Krizek
.....don't know the diameter, it's very fine 1/32...1/64 ???????, been in tool box for decades. Let me know how the adhesive works. thanks dennis
Posted on Jan 30, 2003, 12:42 PM
Results
by cnoble
Well gentlemen, the Dow DP 8005 did not stick to the cross link material. It stuck to everything else I tried to stick to the cross link, but the bond always broke at the cross link. I have no doubt that this adhesive would not stick to almost anything, but not the cross link. I tried with clear, vinyl fiber reinforced tubing, pvc, and some other things, including cross link to cross link. I left a message for the Dow saleman and I'll ask him about other Dow products. If he comes up with something that works I'll let you know. Thanks for the input anyway! I may have to bury my boat after all. I hope they bury the person who made this boat with this stuff in a cross link casket.
Posted on Feb 4, 2003, 12:13 PM