Big tall dude c-1
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:42 pm
Big tall dude c-1
by Ken Pevahouse Ken Pevahouse
6'8"tall, 235 lbs. Looking at a Dagger Honcho for future c-1. Any advice on a c-1 I can put a 9" saddle in,have plenty of forward knee room, and support my weight?
Posted on Aug 21, 2002, 7:01 PM
Depends on what you want to do...
by Scott B
I have a WS Score , I'm a similar weight and have thick legs, but I'm nowhere near as tall. My pedestal is pushing 9" and it's stable enough for brief naps. The Score is fine for playing and some river running, but can get pushed around - I think 230# is near the upper limit for cruising. I had the same setup in an Ultra-Clean and it was even more stable and roomier, but much slower.
I hear the GT/GTX series make good C-1s, the GTX may be big enough. A WS Z might do it, too.
Good luck -
Scott
Posted on Aug 21, 2002, 7:19 PM
Z boat for tall people
by Daniel Holzman Daniel Holzman
I am 6'3", 190 lbs, and I paddle a converted Wavesport Z. Bruce Lessels of Zoar Outdoors is probably about 6'8" tall, you might ask him what he paddles these days (I think he paddles mostly kayak now, he used to paddle C-1 slalom).
I started with the saddle at 8", but it was much too tippy for my tastes. I gradually reduced the saddle to where it is now, which is about 5 1/2 inches. I cannot imagine a C-1 being stable with a 9 inch saddle, but I guess stability is a matter of taste and boat type. My open boat is a Dagger Encore, with a nine inch saddle, and it is extremely stable (so much more than my Z boat that I creek in the Encore).
Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 1:45 PM
Super Cz
by Bill W. Bill W.
I'm not sure how much you would like the Honcho. Kalin had a Honcho for a few months and replaced it with a Super Ez. He's closer to your weight range than I am. I'm 6'1" and 190 pounds. I think he found the stern too squirty.
I own a Z, Score and Super Ez. The Super Ez has a lot more cockpit space and more stability than either the Score or Z. You would be able to get your knees a good distance apart and not be wedged against the cockpit rim. The only downside is it needs a custom sized skirt. The cockpit is longer and wider. This would give your long legs and big feet more space to get out of the boat fast. I think a tall saddle and size 12+ feet would not leave much space between the side of the saddle and the cockpit rim in most boats.
The Super's no speed demon, but its very manueverable, very forgiving with lots of primary stability. This is good for a high altitude C1'er. It would likely have the same hull speed as the Honcho going up and down a river, but would smoke it crossing the river. If you can, demo both boats in flatwater. Just drop the kayak backband and kneel over the seat. Its not very comfy, but at least you can get a feel for the boat.
You should be able to find a Super used by now (complete with skirt) or get a deal on a new one now that the Transformer series is out.
Hope this helps.
The preceeding is just my opinion and likely worth exactly what you paid for it.
Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 4:56 PM
More info on Super EZ?
by Roger Roger
Can you give me a comparison between the Score and Super EZ? I have a Score right now, which I like a lot, but I'm playing on smallish features and the shorter boats seem to be the way to go. I like the idea of a 27" wide boat for stability. I'm 6'2 200lb. I'm concerned about the 60gal volume. Can you throw it around on flatwater (compared to the Score?).
Thanks...Roger
Posted on Aug 23, 2002, 9:52 AM
Super EZ vs Score
by Bill W. Bill W.
I'd like to give you a meaningful comparison but due to a lack of talent and a POS lower back I'm not really doing much throwing around. I'm still at the stage of smashing and plowing the bow down, pivot turns, and stern squirts. I bought the Score because I thought it would be easier to throw around than the Super, was dirt cheap new on sale, and make a nice addition to the fleet.
The first thing you need to know is Wavesport is full of it when they post volume numbers. They derated the Z by 5 gallons without changing the mould. A score looks and boats bigger than a Medieval even though its supposed to be a gallon less. A Super Ez is way more than 3 gallons bigger than a Medeival. I actually found the Super easier to throw around. The sterns on both boats are too big for me to pivot turn although the Super gets me closer. The bow on the Super goes down a lot easier for me. It just needs to be right on edge. If your lower back is good, you'll likely have more torso strength, and you've got a couple pounds on me, so you should have no problem throwing the Super around. The Score has a long flat side that I just couldn't overcome when trying to get vertical. The Super's a bigger boat, but its shorter and more rounded, and seems to initiate better.
Having said that, you might try squishing your score. A dually pickup truck fell on my boat 4 times and now its much slicier than the Super. (I was actually pretty careful about it). I left the pillars as they were and squished the footbumps out of the front and took 3 or 4 gallons out of the stern. The footbumps don't look real pretty, but I'm real happy with the boat now. I gained an inch or two of rocker at both ends which seems to make it surf better on the small stuff. Before I was trimmed stern heavy to cut down on pearling, now I'm trimmed dead level and it seems like a whole new boat. It seems just as fast, hangs onto small waves better, turns better, and doesn't seem as grabby in the stern. Eddyline stuff is a lot easier too. It now goes into the water and through instead of stalling out, bouncing back and ripping the crap out of me. Its not as stable as the Super, or slicy like a Delerious, but its pretty much the boat I hoped it would be when I first bought it.
If you like, I can send you some photo's of my boat and the set-up I used for squishing.
I hope this helps and no you can't have those three minutes of your life back !
Posted on Aug 23, 2002, 1:59 PM
Thanks
by Ken
I'll check out the ones mentioned. 8" saddle may be bearable.
Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 6:14 PM
by Ken Pevahouse Ken Pevahouse
6'8"tall, 235 lbs. Looking at a Dagger Honcho for future c-1. Any advice on a c-1 I can put a 9" saddle in,have plenty of forward knee room, and support my weight?
Posted on Aug 21, 2002, 7:01 PM
Depends on what you want to do...
by Scott B
I have a WS Score , I'm a similar weight and have thick legs, but I'm nowhere near as tall. My pedestal is pushing 9" and it's stable enough for brief naps. The Score is fine for playing and some river running, but can get pushed around - I think 230# is near the upper limit for cruising. I had the same setup in an Ultra-Clean and it was even more stable and roomier, but much slower.
I hear the GT/GTX series make good C-1s, the GTX may be big enough. A WS Z might do it, too.
Good luck -
Scott
Posted on Aug 21, 2002, 7:19 PM
Z boat for tall people
by Daniel Holzman Daniel Holzman
I am 6'3", 190 lbs, and I paddle a converted Wavesport Z. Bruce Lessels of Zoar Outdoors is probably about 6'8" tall, you might ask him what he paddles these days (I think he paddles mostly kayak now, he used to paddle C-1 slalom).
I started with the saddle at 8", but it was much too tippy for my tastes. I gradually reduced the saddle to where it is now, which is about 5 1/2 inches. I cannot imagine a C-1 being stable with a 9 inch saddle, but I guess stability is a matter of taste and boat type. My open boat is a Dagger Encore, with a nine inch saddle, and it is extremely stable (so much more than my Z boat that I creek in the Encore).
Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 1:45 PM
Super Cz
by Bill W. Bill W.
I'm not sure how much you would like the Honcho. Kalin had a Honcho for a few months and replaced it with a Super Ez. He's closer to your weight range than I am. I'm 6'1" and 190 pounds. I think he found the stern too squirty.
I own a Z, Score and Super Ez. The Super Ez has a lot more cockpit space and more stability than either the Score or Z. You would be able to get your knees a good distance apart and not be wedged against the cockpit rim. The only downside is it needs a custom sized skirt. The cockpit is longer and wider. This would give your long legs and big feet more space to get out of the boat fast. I think a tall saddle and size 12+ feet would not leave much space between the side of the saddle and the cockpit rim in most boats.
The Super's no speed demon, but its very manueverable, very forgiving with lots of primary stability. This is good for a high altitude C1'er. It would likely have the same hull speed as the Honcho going up and down a river, but would smoke it crossing the river. If you can, demo both boats in flatwater. Just drop the kayak backband and kneel over the seat. Its not very comfy, but at least you can get a feel for the boat.
You should be able to find a Super used by now (complete with skirt) or get a deal on a new one now that the Transformer series is out.
Hope this helps.
The preceeding is just my opinion and likely worth exactly what you paid for it.
Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 4:56 PM
More info on Super EZ?
by Roger Roger
Can you give me a comparison between the Score and Super EZ? I have a Score right now, which I like a lot, but I'm playing on smallish features and the shorter boats seem to be the way to go. I like the idea of a 27" wide boat for stability. I'm 6'2 200lb. I'm concerned about the 60gal volume. Can you throw it around on flatwater (compared to the Score?).
Thanks...Roger
Posted on Aug 23, 2002, 9:52 AM
Super EZ vs Score
by Bill W. Bill W.
I'd like to give you a meaningful comparison but due to a lack of talent and a POS lower back I'm not really doing much throwing around. I'm still at the stage of smashing and plowing the bow down, pivot turns, and stern squirts. I bought the Score because I thought it would be easier to throw around than the Super, was dirt cheap new on sale, and make a nice addition to the fleet.
The first thing you need to know is Wavesport is full of it when they post volume numbers. They derated the Z by 5 gallons without changing the mould. A score looks and boats bigger than a Medieval even though its supposed to be a gallon less. A Super Ez is way more than 3 gallons bigger than a Medeival. I actually found the Super easier to throw around. The sterns on both boats are too big for me to pivot turn although the Super gets me closer. The bow on the Super goes down a lot easier for me. It just needs to be right on edge. If your lower back is good, you'll likely have more torso strength, and you've got a couple pounds on me, so you should have no problem throwing the Super around. The Score has a long flat side that I just couldn't overcome when trying to get vertical. The Super's a bigger boat, but its shorter and more rounded, and seems to initiate better.
Having said that, you might try squishing your score. A dually pickup truck fell on my boat 4 times and now its much slicier than the Super. (I was actually pretty careful about it). I left the pillars as they were and squished the footbumps out of the front and took 3 or 4 gallons out of the stern. The footbumps don't look real pretty, but I'm real happy with the boat now. I gained an inch or two of rocker at both ends which seems to make it surf better on the small stuff. Before I was trimmed stern heavy to cut down on pearling, now I'm trimmed dead level and it seems like a whole new boat. It seems just as fast, hangs onto small waves better, turns better, and doesn't seem as grabby in the stern. Eddyline stuff is a lot easier too. It now goes into the water and through instead of stalling out, bouncing back and ripping the crap out of me. Its not as stable as the Super, or slicy like a Delerious, but its pretty much the boat I hoped it would be when I first bought it.
If you like, I can send you some photo's of my boat and the set-up I used for squishing.
I hope this helps and no you can't have those three minutes of your life back !
Posted on Aug 23, 2002, 1:59 PM
Thanks
by Ken
I'll check out the ones mentioned. 8" saddle may be bearable.
Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 6:14 PM