C-Forum

I have a Mohawk Shaman that started to get a bunch of cracks on the inside of the hull within 90 days. They were in the bow, the stern, in front of the seat, just about everywhere. The out side of the hull never did crack or show any signs of a problem. I don't know what Mohawk did to screw this one up but they did.
I looked all through their literature on the internet and all the printed material that I could find and they don't mention a warranty. I am finding out now that they don't warranty their boats. They picked mine up at Nantahala during the Spring Splash. Now they say they won't replace it. They are threatening not to even bring it back to the Nantahala during GAF. Have you ever heard of such?

Not sure what is going on with this boat, but there is a big problem if it is that new and you have that problem.

Drag it right in the NOC retail shop during a Saturday afternoon when it is packed with people. Point out the flaw to the manager. You will get an exchange.

Mohawk's reply to this issues can be found on boatertalk.com
http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/371689

Making a scene at the NOC retail store wouldn't do much good - the NOC, nor any other retail outlet for that matter, sells Mohawk - you buy factory direct these days (5 years or more?). Plus, from the BT post, it sounds like we didn't get the whole story... Mohawk's "outpost" at the Nantahala is essentially a campsite at a riverside campground, not many "scene making" opportunities there either.

Personally, I've had no problems with Mohawk - products or service. My Viper has some cracks and splits, but that is because I paddled the living daylights out of it for about 5 years before letting it retire. Speaking of which, anybody interested in a Viper ? I can make you a deal and even hook you up with the ABS to fix it...

Scott
Scott

To youngwillyd. Your post generated quite a few questions that you did not give us. Did you buy the boat brand new from Mohawk or did you buy it from another boater or did you buy it from a retailer second-hand? Did you go with the factory installed gunwale rails and outfitting or were there modifications to the gunwales or was the outfitting installed by someone else? What kind of boating have you, or anyone else, put this boat through? I know Mohawk has described this boat as a slalom boat and great for attaining. To me, this means it would not be the best choice for creeky, shallow runs.

Are you posting only what you want us to know or are you giving us the full story? It does not sound like it to me since there are a lot of questions left unanswered. I saw what you posted about what Mohawk has refused to do, but what was Mohawk's full reply to you? If you are going to post an issue you have with another boater, retailer or manufacturer in the boating community, please be factual with the reading audience. For me, personally, something is amiss and am suspect of the intention of your post.

What do you want from us?

KNeal

Greetings...

The boatertalk posting clears things up for me-espeically Mohawks response. Check it out-

http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/371689

Thanks to the "guest" who posted the link above-it is very enlightening....

He posted the same thing over at paddling.net, and Mohawk's reply seems to be a cut'n'paste jobby too. Good conversation and questions for Willy on there, and he hasn't been back to answer then anywhere, it looks like.
Haven't checked the NPMB yet, but I think it's likely that there's a thread over there, as well.

http://www.paddling.net/message/showThr ... &tid=84771

It is amazing how the same thing looks so different from two different sides. I am sorry that someone led you to believe that I was trying to get a canoe paddled for four years covered under warranty.

My Shaman was bought new on 15 December 2001. I bought it from Troublesome Creek Outfitters. Doug Shumate told me the canoe had been kept inside his store the whole time. It looked like it had to me. You are more than welcome to contact Doug at www.troublesomecreek.com and get collaboration of my story. I have bought a lot of things off of Doug and highly recommend him for all your paddling needs, short of a Mohawk canoe. I am pretty sure Mohawk knew this because Doug had done the talking and arranged for me to bring the boat to GAF.

Since I no longer have the boat in front of me I will have to try to remember the cracks. The first time it started cracking it was slight but you could tell that’s what it was. I did as Mohawk suggested and purchased some West System epoxy and fiberglass cloth. I couldn’t get the 10oz they recommended so I got the 7oz. I put a patch in the stern and the bow just about where they start to turn up. The patches were slightly larger than my palm. Two layers, the last one about a half in bigger than the first. The next time I checked the stern had cracked all the way through the patch and into the foam. I patched again with larger patches. By now I had a crack starting in front of the seat and one about five inches in front of the stern patch. I have a picture that shows the stern crack. I blew it up to an 8x10. If you are at the Nantahala this summer I will be glad to show it to you. I believe Mohawk says one of the cracks is 14 inches long. The picture shows it was only 8 inches at this time. So they have continued to grow, even after patching as they instructed. The major ones are down into the foam. I was able to see that the abs material at that point was thin as a few sheets of paper. I really don’t think that is enough abs in that area for a whitewater boat.

I bought this boat empty so I could outfit it myself. I drilled down from the top on the gunnels to allow my airbags to rise up as far as possible and hopefully keep the boat dryer. I will do my next boat that way. I got the idea from a Mad River Outrage that I saw on the Nantahala. It was an older boat and was not showing any problems. What Mohawk doesn’t tell you is that they don’t run aluminum from end to end in their gunnels. They stop it just past the thwarts. Do you think plastic gunnels with no metal support are strong enough for whitewater? I don’t. If I had known that they had cut that corner then I probably wouldn’t have bought the canoe. Check out www.mikeyeeoutfitting.com. He has a picture gallery of several boats that are outfitted. They have two thwarts at the ends of the airbags. You can see a picture of Mike in his fourteen foot Dagger Caption. It only has two thwarts in it. I removed the thwart over the seat when I noticed that my heels where hitting it when I flipped and came out of the boat. I did not like the idea of getting hung in that boat upside down. I measured the width of the boat very carefully before changing the thwarts. If this boat is made so poorly that you must leave the thwarts as they come from the factory then they should publish a warning stating such.

As for what the customer wants, Mohawk, specifically Mark, told me what I was getting. He would not warranty the boat. He had a deal with Spartech to get another piece of plastic to replace this one last year at GAF. That deal was now off. Should I have been contacting Spartech because the plastic was bad? Sounds like it. When I told Mark someone might be able to stop by there and pick up a new boat, but no one was coming to pick up that boat he told me if they didn’t have room when they come to GAF this year then he would put it in the warehouse. I think this is about the time I told Mark what he could do with the boat. Mohawk may not know what the customer wants, but Mark sure knows where I would like to see the final resting place of this canoe to be.

Willy

Now I will respond back. First, thank you for answering several questions. You did leave some questions unanswered regarding the kind of paddling you have been putting this boat through.

On Boatertalk, someone posted that they saw your boat on the Upper Gauley River in not very good condition (I'm paraphrasing here). What's up with that? You have a whitewater boat designed by an open boat slalom racer (Harold Deal) ideally for slalom racing and attaining. I got this info. from Mohawk' website. So, what have YOU used the boat for?

Additionally, you made modifications to the gunwales with your drilling and repositioning the thwarts in your boat. Did you ask Mohawk directly about making these changes to this boat? I further checked out Mohawk's outfitting page and saw where the rear thwart was needed to help secure the kneeling saddle in place. I also saw where they were drilling through the hull and not the thwarts for attaching the airbag lacings.

Finally, you bought the boat from a dealer whom you trust. Trust in a retailer is great. When I have trust in a place where I spend my money, I continue to go back and spend more. However, I have not seen where Mohawk sells directly to retailers. According to Mohawk, you buy their boats DIRECTLY from them. What's up with that? If anyone were to email Mohawk and ask them where they can buy a new boat, what do you think Mohawk's answer will be?

I am not attacking you, just confused with the information you are providing contrary to what I have understood about Mohawk for many years. We do not have flamefests on this messageboard and I am not trying to start one. When you post here about a problem you have with a boat manufacturer, your accuracy is what helps. Reading Mohawk's response about your communications with them has shed a different light on this matter you did not show. What's up with that? So far, the only thing I understand is that you're upset with Mohawk and that you have been very unprofessionally discourteous to Mark. If this is so, go take your pissing contest somewhere else.

Kneal

BTW, if you think having an ABS boat crack on you is a pain, own and paddle a glass boat.

A couple thoughts on this:
Was the consumer’s reply posted on BT (I see it’s on Paddlers.net)?
It might make sense to do this so that: 1.) Interested parties on BT see additional information relating to this issue; 2.) Mohawk has a chance to reply to this updated info. (on BT, paddler.net and here on the Forum), and 3.) Maybe help in getting some sort of amicable agreement can worked out between the parties involved.
When I read Mohawk’s reply and this sentence jumped out at me. “Our experience with repairs has been very favorable. Although the canoe has scrapes and dings on the bottom and the rest of the hull indicates that the canoe has seen considerable use, the canoe is still serviceable and Mohawk offered to do a professional repair at no charge.”
On this sentence alone I start to wonder about this whole issue. It almost sounds to me (and I’m not pointing figures just sitting outside looking in) that the boat can be fixed if the parties involve take a breath and just get back to the basic issue – the repair!
This repair might be painful for the consumer since there might be some monies related to shipping involved, which although will hurt, hurts less than not having the boat (I’m using “bird in the hand” logic here). Or to work around this – can the customer wait for the next Spring Splash (2004) if Mohawk would deliver it – this would need negotiated.
Worse case, if Mohawk stands by this offer (and I think Forum readers would want to know if this is not the case), and the user gets the boat back, he can sell it to recover some costs and clear the mind. I would suggest informing the new purchaser of it’s famous (infamous) past – but that’s me. I wouldn’t think this boat’s history would be an issue for most buyers, depending on their needs and the boats pricing… But I digress.
My question is since the consumer is currently boatless (at least one shy) does it not make sense to suck it up and get the most return – getting the boat “professionally repaired”? If then the decion is to then get rid of the boat and never purchase a Mohawk product and / or to warn others of this expereince - so be it!
I’d just like to hear the final outcome since this seems to be one of those learning experiences in life I would rather not live through.
My $.02

PS: this posting link has been forwarded to Mohawk so they have a chance to respond as well. If they decide not to – that’s there call.

Mohawk has a response to Willy's second post : http://www.boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/373653

Topics containing links to people's sites are unneeded and contribute nothing as a whole, much like topics containing content like this one. You could have PMed a moderator and asked this same question and received the same Bankruptcy Laws response. Please do so in the future.

I have to disagree here!
I viewed the original post as a something the manufacturer should have the right to respond to.
Particularly since the manufacturer in question is someone who has personally treated me extremely well in the past.
Additionally, since responding to each and every forum the original post was made on would have been time consuming (at best IMO), since it was made on many sites, I think the link to the response at a single source makes sense and was appropriate in nature.
But these are my thoughts and I respect yours!
Paul C.