C-Forum

I want another boat. I'm thinking of something relatively stable to run big water & maybe replace my Cascade. I also want something that will stern squirt with a 180lbs. fat boy in it. What should I be looking for? Am I asking too much?

The river is 25 feet too high to have good rapids now, but there are nice eddylines around the bridge abutments. My Big EZ-C-1 is too slow to get out there & I can't get the Cascade to squirt.

Mike W.

I'd go for a full cut Viper...built to cruise, nice and stable, and you'll be able to stern squirt it. You COULD get an Atom, but you'll find the Viper a bit easier to squirt, more forgiving, and faster (it IS glass).

Definitely consider a Viper . It is time for you to get out of the plastic and into some glass. You will really love it! The boat will be lighter, get anywhere on the river, surf to your heart's content, and squirt like a dream! The Atom, even though I still paddle the daylights out of mine, is a bear to squirt, even at your weight and abilities. Once you engage the long, slicey stern of a Viper, simply enjoy the moment because the squirt will be fairly slow and SMOOTH!

Also, for what you are talking about (the eddyline below the bridge abutment) is a perfect place for an Acrobat. Not only will you squirt the stern, but you can also squirt the bow and even learn how to throw multiple ends! If you can make the Armada, definitely get in these boats and try them out. You will love it!

KNeal

Looks like my only choice is a Viper.

I tried an Atom last winter. It's almost as fast as the Cascade, surfs better, but I could not make it squirt. My Big EZ surfs steep waves great, squirts at will to either side & I can sometimes get 2 ends, but it's the slowest thing I've ever paddled.

Looks like I'm on for my 1st armada. I want to paddle everything!

Mike W.

You might consider a Score. (I just bought one so it must be good. ) I haven't outfitted it yet but am anxious to give it a try. I weigh 200 lbs, currently paddle a Forplay and really like it. I'm hoping a Score will be better on bigger water.

I have a Score, too. At 210, it is a lot of fun on small rivers and can be thrown around on flatwater. On bigger water, you have to mind the edges and keep up a head of steam - it's kind of slow, but manageable. But slow is relative, if you've been paddling a Forplay/EZ/etc, those have to be slower (shorter, lower volume). It is very stable and surfs great. Some day I'll get the whole flat spin, green grind, counter clock wheel, rodeo star thing fingured out - or maybe not

Before that I paddled a Whiplash (still have it) - the bow has too much volume for some moves (thus I invented the "variable volume bow"), but that is also an advantage - it surfaces well and can get good air on enders. [Compress the bow and a "big boy" can get enders anywhere and the beginnings of bow squirts...] Stern squirts are smooth and almost automatic, surfs great, too. It's a lot faster than my Score. The main drawback is that it is narrow, detracting from the initial stability, though it has good secondary. I actually prefer it as a big water boat, though I have to figure in the "remember how the skinny boat feels" adjsutment period...

But compared to my Slasher, the Whiplash is sloooow If you want to get an idea of what a Viper is like, pick up a Slasher (can be found cheap) and crush the stern (carefully!) - now you have a fast boat that stern squirts beautifully - tall, slow, and stable. Now imagine the same boat but faster, more stable and smoother - that's a Viper.

Scott

Scott, you bring up another idea. What about squashing the stern of my Cascade? How would that handle?

Personally, I don't think the Cascade is a good squashing candidate. If the goal is to have a squirtable end, then you need to create and edge (or enhance an existing edge) and reduce the volume a good bit. I'm not sure with the Cascade, being rounded, where or how it would bend on the sides. Plus it has tons of volume, you'd have to squash the fool out of it to get it in the squirtable range and by then it would be, what, 3 and a half feet wide?

The Slasher squashed great - it was already angular and the stern squeezed in naturally. [I tried compacting the bow of one, there were some curves that complicated matters and it never looked natural or worked very well] I compressed the bow of my Whiplash and that worked well, too. It has a nice line where chine transitions to the deck that was a natural bending point - that was an almost invisible alteration. I could probably get some pictures to illustrate what I mean - let me know.

It's not hard to "squash" a boat, though there are a few things to consider. I think if you do a search on this forum, you should find some old posts with details on technique. If not, I can write up how I did it.

Scott

I concur with Scott.
The Cascade is not a boat you can step on and get any value out of (not to mention taking all the value out of).
When I had a Cascade we (my boat squashing guru and myself) spent some time and many beers playing with the that thought - the conclusion - the pay off wasn't worth the effort (the round haul works against you). I personally don't think you could get enough volume out of it.
We squashed a number of boats prior to and since then and even upon rethinking it I wouldn't do it.
But then if you really want to, and have the time and boat you can always prove us wrong (or right). Your call!! Good luck and let us know.
CU PAC