I am curious how many C-1 paddlers can paddle at least reasonably well with the paddle switched to their weak side - not paddling with off-side strokes, but actually switching the hands on the paddle and switching sides.
Randy
Ambidextrous C-1'rs
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
Ambidextrous C-1'rs
Cone Bone
randy@artisansgroup.com
randy@artisansgroup.com
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daniel holzman
Ambidextrous
I am hardly ambidextrous, however I do paddle on both sides fairly regularly. This is probably a holdover from my days as an open boater. I generally paddle right handed, however I paddle left handed under the follow circumstances:
1. When I am tired and need a break from right hand
2. For very fast water right to left ferries, I prefer to make the ferry left handed. Sometimes I switch to right handed partway across the ferry, usually I just do the whole ferry left handed.
3. When attaining, and the left side offers deeper water or a better paddle placement.
I cannot roll reliably roll left handed, it feels really awkward, although I am planning to work on it this summer. I also cannot hand roll, perhaps the two are related?
1. When I am tired and need a break from right hand
2. For very fast water right to left ferries, I prefer to make the ferry left handed. Sometimes I switch to right handed partway across the ferry, usually I just do the whole ferry left handed.
3. When attaining, and the left side offers deeper water or a better paddle placement.
I cannot roll reliably roll left handed, it feels really awkward, although I am planning to work on it this summer. I also cannot hand roll, perhaps the two are related?
Sides
If i can do everything exceptional on one side, and im comfortable making hard ferries and such on my offside, we would i want to switch sides? The tired one...ok ya far enough. The only other thing is if im paddling tandom and the others person paddles the same side. The i would paddle my bad side if in the bow.
Drop Waterfalls, Not Bombs
Amidextrous Paddling
Well, just to further complicate the discussion, here is some personal data:
I am right-handed but like to try things with my left if only to maintain some muscle and neuromuscular symmetry.
Whitewater kayak: right control
Flatwater kayak: marathon raced left control and sea kayak either right or left. Prefer right for subtle control.
Canoe; nautural rightie, but do all strokes equally well on either side.
Flat water canoe racing: sprint or dragon boat have done both right and left. No preference.
Whitewater C1: definite preference for right, but can paddle on left. I have forced myself to get comfortable with offside ferries. I was a switcher in a former lifetime.
Conclusion: None really. It's a good idea to weight train and stretch that promotes some symmetry and balance. It's also easier on muscles and joints to spend time on the other side.
Maybe C-boaters are inherently single-minded and stubbornly stuck in their ways.
I am right-handed but like to try things with my left if only to maintain some muscle and neuromuscular symmetry.
Whitewater kayak: right control
Flatwater kayak: marathon raced left control and sea kayak either right or left. Prefer right for subtle control.
Canoe; nautural rightie, but do all strokes equally well on either side.
Flat water canoe racing: sprint or dragon boat have done both right and left. No preference.
Whitewater C1: definite preference for right, but can paddle on left. I have forced myself to get comfortable with offside ferries. I was a switcher in a former lifetime.
Conclusion: None really. It's a good idea to weight train and stretch that promotes some symmetry and balance. It's also easier on muscles and joints to spend time on the other side.
Maybe C-boaters are inherently single-minded and stubbornly stuck in their ways.
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unicorn1
switcheys, & a Q
I am pretty much lefty, but i "can" function on the right somewhat. Early on, I sort of did both, but settled down to lefty in C-2. Being able to switch to roll is a definite plus, even tho I can also do a bow roll either way. At various times I have made resolutions to improve paddling on the right; my goal being to paddle the whole Lower Y RH without switching. Never have managed to make it, tho. Also, it depends. Most slalom boaters seem to be one-sided; the technique is too intense to practice two ways, and cross strokes work fine. Wildwater technique is different, DR racers are more apt to be switchies (Andy Bridge once told me either side was equally ok..with Andy, that's pretty OK!). Cross strokes are not really what you want in those boats, either.
I can do much better cruising righty than in gates. In C-2, I can do OK bow right for cruising, enders, etc (& my switchey roll is dynamite!), but I am a bit clumsy in gates.
Finally, a Q: My theory is that lefty is "normal" for a right-handed person, because the T-grip is the control hand & hence RH fine control seems natural. Guess I partly got that idea from seeing so many top C-1s that were lefty.
But maybe another issue is that some folks begin in K-1s, where everyone is encouraged to be right-control because that is usually the paddle you are handed. Then switching to C-1 makes lefty natural because you instinctively try to use right control.
So I wonder how many of us are leftys, vs. rightys, and also, for folks who are left-handed, whether they tend to be lefty or righty paddlers. I think we may have exercised this Q. once before, and I don't think the answers were very decisive then, but still... Any thoughts?
I can do much better cruising righty than in gates. In C-2, I can do OK bow right for cruising, enders, etc (& my switchey roll is dynamite!), but I am a bit clumsy in gates.
Finally, a Q: My theory is that lefty is "normal" for a right-handed person, because the T-grip is the control hand & hence RH fine control seems natural. Guess I partly got that idea from seeing so many top C-1s that were lefty.
But maybe another issue is that some folks begin in K-1s, where everyone is encouraged to be right-control because that is usually the paddle you are handed. Then switching to C-1 makes lefty natural because you instinctively try to use right control.
So I wonder how many of us are leftys, vs. rightys, and also, for folks who are left-handed, whether they tend to be lefty or righty paddlers. I think we may have exercised this Q. once before, and I don't think the answers were very decisive then, but still... Any thoughts?
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Space Canoe
- C Guru
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 9:20 am
- Location: Los Angeles
Well.....
I'm a confirmed switch paddler now. First, sorry about the length, but I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, for numerous reasons.
Like I said in the related post below, once I looked at things in an unbiased light, it just made so much more sense. And I have to confess that during my first years as a teacher, I was pretty merciless regarding beginning switch paddlers. Let's just say, I made it quite clear that you're weren't a REAL paddler unless you stayed on one side and used offside strokes. And I still think you should know all of your offside strokes because they're useful. I still do offside strokes, if I only need one or two strokes on my opposite side to correct angle, and I try to use cross-bow draw strokes whenever I feel stable enough, because they are a much stronger stroke than an onside bow draw stroke. And like "unicorn" I'm still much stronger on my left side; I used to teach on the Lower Yough and I seriously doubt whether I could make it down right-handed only. Yeah, on second thought, that would be brutal!
But onside ferries are so much stronger than offside ferries, and onside eddy turns and peel outs are so much more stable and controllable when crossing the differential line than offside ones are. When I first investigated switching to switching (hmmm, interesting term) I videotaped and timed numerous thirty-second attempts on flatwater at alternating back and forth between an onside and offside power stroke as quickly as possible, and then switch paddling (back and forth between an onside power stroke on the left , then changing hands and doing and an onside power stroke on the right). I think this was in a canoe, so it might be slightly different for a lower hulled C-1, but my average was 24 strokes using on side and offside versus 22 strokes using all onside strokes. But when you don't change hands, what you actually get is 12 of the 24 strokes being on side (hence much stronger) strokes and 12 strokes being offside strokes. Whereas when you switch paddle you get 22 on side strokes. So I ended up being much more stable and propelling the boat significantly farther because I was doing a much stronger stroke the entire time. When I was teaching yearly on the East Coast I flirted with a couple of national level competitive paddlers, but they never saw the beauty, unfortunately. I had an Olympic C-2 team considering my bent shaft-angled blade paddle, but they didn’t even want to hear about switch paddling in a C2. But I think that would be just a KILLER COMBINATION; all gate turns would be under full lean/full power. I think that "unicorn" makes an interesting point about the intensity of training; most paddlers at that level that I approached were intrigued, but not interested, because of the manner in which their training regimen would have to be changed. But I still have to say, it seems to me, that if you were able (by switch paddling and using a bent shaft-angled blade paddle) to improve your capabilities by 15-20 percent, then it would be well worth the time and effort, especially when considering what that difference would mean at that high level, where victories are sometimes decided in hundredths of seconds.
As regards us mere mortals, I think you're hardly any less stable when moving over to the opposite side; since whether you're using either style you have to bring your paddle across the center of the boat, and it's in the air, and you're off balance. The grip change really isn't that difficult, if you practice. You take your top hand off and put it directly underneath your bottom hand, then slide your bottom hand up the shaft and onto the handle so that both hands are on the paddle almost all of the time. Again, you're 2-3 strokes slower over a 30 second period of time. So in real paddling it’s almost nonexistent, because you don't paddle hard and fast for 30 seconds at a time; the usual setting up for or avoiding obstacles is done in 5-10 second spurts, at most. And as posted in the other related post, offside strokes are not traditional; my reasonably extensive research (5 full days in 2 national museum archives) showed that most Native Americans hardly used them at all. And, come on, nothing about this sport is traditional anymore; when was the last time you saw a picture or read a journal report from the 1800s about a Native American in a 9 foot Royalex canoe with a carbon graphite spoon blade? Let alone ANY report of ANY C-1 in any culture?
Admittedly, if you're trying to look cool or keep things difficult, nothing is more beautiful than a seamlessly executed offside stroke. Even when you get good at switch paddling, you tend to look like a frustrated kayaker who somehow ended up in the wrong boat, so the real question is:
I haven't figured out a hip-hop happening term for this style yet, most paddlers can be a lefty or righty, but what am I, a "Switch-y”, a “Both-y”, a “Twice-y”? I'm an Angelino, so coolness is paramount; all reasonable suggestions will be gratefully accepted…….
RT
Like I said in the related post below, once I looked at things in an unbiased light, it just made so much more sense. And I have to confess that during my first years as a teacher, I was pretty merciless regarding beginning switch paddlers. Let's just say, I made it quite clear that you're weren't a REAL paddler unless you stayed on one side and used offside strokes. And I still think you should know all of your offside strokes because they're useful. I still do offside strokes, if I only need one or two strokes on my opposite side to correct angle, and I try to use cross-bow draw strokes whenever I feel stable enough, because they are a much stronger stroke than an onside bow draw stroke. And like "unicorn" I'm still much stronger on my left side; I used to teach on the Lower Yough and I seriously doubt whether I could make it down right-handed only. Yeah, on second thought, that would be brutal!
But onside ferries are so much stronger than offside ferries, and onside eddy turns and peel outs are so much more stable and controllable when crossing the differential line than offside ones are. When I first investigated switching to switching (hmmm, interesting term) I videotaped and timed numerous thirty-second attempts on flatwater at alternating back and forth between an onside and offside power stroke as quickly as possible, and then switch paddling (back and forth between an onside power stroke on the left , then changing hands and doing and an onside power stroke on the right). I think this was in a canoe, so it might be slightly different for a lower hulled C-1, but my average was 24 strokes using on side and offside versus 22 strokes using all onside strokes. But when you don't change hands, what you actually get is 12 of the 24 strokes being on side (hence much stronger) strokes and 12 strokes being offside strokes. Whereas when you switch paddle you get 22 on side strokes. So I ended up being much more stable and propelling the boat significantly farther because I was doing a much stronger stroke the entire time. When I was teaching yearly on the East Coast I flirted with a couple of national level competitive paddlers, but they never saw the beauty, unfortunately. I had an Olympic C-2 team considering my bent shaft-angled blade paddle, but they didn’t even want to hear about switch paddling in a C2. But I think that would be just a KILLER COMBINATION; all gate turns would be under full lean/full power. I think that "unicorn" makes an interesting point about the intensity of training; most paddlers at that level that I approached were intrigued, but not interested, because of the manner in which their training regimen would have to be changed. But I still have to say, it seems to me, that if you were able (by switch paddling and using a bent shaft-angled blade paddle) to improve your capabilities by 15-20 percent, then it would be well worth the time and effort, especially when considering what that difference would mean at that high level, where victories are sometimes decided in hundredths of seconds.
As regards us mere mortals, I think you're hardly any less stable when moving over to the opposite side; since whether you're using either style you have to bring your paddle across the center of the boat, and it's in the air, and you're off balance. The grip change really isn't that difficult, if you practice. You take your top hand off and put it directly underneath your bottom hand, then slide your bottom hand up the shaft and onto the handle so that both hands are on the paddle almost all of the time. Again, you're 2-3 strokes slower over a 30 second period of time. So in real paddling it’s almost nonexistent, because you don't paddle hard and fast for 30 seconds at a time; the usual setting up for or avoiding obstacles is done in 5-10 second spurts, at most. And as posted in the other related post, offside strokes are not traditional; my reasonably extensive research (5 full days in 2 national museum archives) showed that most Native Americans hardly used them at all. And, come on, nothing about this sport is traditional anymore; when was the last time you saw a picture or read a journal report from the 1800s about a Native American in a 9 foot Royalex canoe with a carbon graphite spoon blade? Let alone ANY report of ANY C-1 in any culture?
Admittedly, if you're trying to look cool or keep things difficult, nothing is more beautiful than a seamlessly executed offside stroke. Even when you get good at switch paddling, you tend to look like a frustrated kayaker who somehow ended up in the wrong boat, so the real question is:
I haven't figured out a hip-hop happening term for this style yet, most paddlers can be a lefty or righty, but what am I, a "Switch-y”, a “Both-y”, a “Twice-y”? I'm an Angelino, so coolness is paramount; all reasonable suggestions will be gratefully accepted…….
RT
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Paul C
my thoughts....
Some interesting thought crossed my mind based on all the related posts I’ve read to date on this issue. Note: I’m a righty by nature and mostly (again mostly) paddle righty!
First there are some really good cboaters out there both lefty and righty! Folks well above my skill set. That I know forgot more about cboating than I’ve ever learned.
Second I’m a “switch-y” (per RTs post) but only 10 to 20% of the time. And there are two basic reasons for it! It’s 1.) easier and 2.) more comfortable to me to come out of most river left eddies into up stream play spots. But I can’t say I’m stronger righty - just more comfortable.
For examples I’ll use two play spots on the Lower Yough (since a number of posters are familiar with this water)!
The first is Nemo’s (half way down Entrance Rapid) – if someone is already in the play hole you need to run the tongue on feature right (river left) to enter the staging eddie to play in this spot. In almost all cases I cross draw from a righty position to pull and enter this eddie. However, to exit the eddie I use a number of right (onside) strokes to start the feature attain, then aggressively switch to lefty status to finish the attain and to start the drop into the feature. While dropping in I switch back to right to surf and play!
Why I do it this way only the “God Hyrdo” knows. It’s just what “feels” right, to me - scratch that… what feels correct to me!! Oh, and I don’t do it 100% of the time – just about 80 - 90%. Go figure! Again it seems I do this naturally since I don’t think it through, just naturally “do” it.
The second feature is Swimmers hole at Swimmers Rapid. When coming up the eddie line (the waiting line that is - there almost always is a line to get into this feature during peak periods filled mostly with Ks) I paddle lefty! Why? It’s easier on my blade (shallow and rock shore on river left heading up into the feature) and it protects me from errant K blades hitting me in the face as they are being tossed about by those jockeying for position and trying to stay in line. Note: Entering from river right looks to be very hard since the entrance eddie is a way down stream. You’d have to have a boat with speed that can attain well (forget it in a shorter play boat) and no one every looks for you entering this way anyway so you’d have to have great paddle Zen going (I’ve never done it and have only seen the likes of Jessie Whitmore do it in a slalom K
).
Again – I see others in open and deck canoes doing the same thing – I use my lefty stroke to get up and onto (into) the foampyle (air-aided) part of the wave then switch as I drop into the play feature. It just seems natural based on how things are set up in this situation. Some times (5-10%) I stay lefty (for a short period – I usually get washed out quicky lefty
) while I play but mostly I play “righty” (I stay in the feature longer).
What I’m getting at is that I do what feels “right” or “left” for me in the situation at hand. I sometimes paddle flat sections lefty to be different or exercise those muscles but not often. I have rolled on my left (I never practiced it – it just happened when I was set up lefty and flipped – to which I was very thankful). But switching hands has never been a big issue or a problem. I also have done longer ferries and attains using just the lefty in me – some times in bigger pushy water (Cheat and Lower Gauley).
I don’t really paddle downriver often (race style requiring a longer craft and maybe different techniques) so overall I’d consider myself to be just an average C-boater paddling average class rivers in shorter boats - so maybe I’m not the best to baseline off to determine what’s best!
But couple things I do know: I was never formally taught to cboat
(open or decked) so whatever I do is based on what feels “natural” for me, and I’ll try to work on / think about my lefty paddling skills during the summer out on the river to help my skills grow!
Keep these perplexing thoughts coming folks so I can expand my “C”nowledge!
CU out there! PAC
PS: Alden - your KAYAK paddle post was cruel – but it made me smile!!!
First there are some really good cboaters out there both lefty and righty! Folks well above my skill set. That I know forgot more about cboating than I’ve ever learned.
Second I’m a “switch-y” (per RTs post) but only 10 to 20% of the time. And there are two basic reasons for it! It’s 1.) easier and 2.) more comfortable to me to come out of most river left eddies into up stream play spots. But I can’t say I’m stronger righty - just more comfortable.
For examples I’ll use two play spots on the Lower Yough (since a number of posters are familiar with this water)!
The first is Nemo’s (half way down Entrance Rapid) – if someone is already in the play hole you need to run the tongue on feature right (river left) to enter the staging eddie to play in this spot. In almost all cases I cross draw from a righty position to pull and enter this eddie. However, to exit the eddie I use a number of right (onside) strokes to start the feature attain, then aggressively switch to lefty status to finish the attain and to start the drop into the feature. While dropping in I switch back to right to surf and play!
Why I do it this way only the “God Hyrdo” knows. It’s just what “feels” right, to me - scratch that… what feels correct to me!! Oh, and I don’t do it 100% of the time – just about 80 - 90%. Go figure! Again it seems I do this naturally since I don’t think it through, just naturally “do” it.
The second feature is Swimmers hole at Swimmers Rapid. When coming up the eddie line (the waiting line that is - there almost always is a line to get into this feature during peak periods filled mostly with Ks) I paddle lefty! Why? It’s easier on my blade (shallow and rock shore on river left heading up into the feature) and it protects me from errant K blades hitting me in the face as they are being tossed about by those jockeying for position and trying to stay in line. Note: Entering from river right looks to be very hard since the entrance eddie is a way down stream. You’d have to have a boat with speed that can attain well (forget it in a shorter play boat) and no one every looks for you entering this way anyway so you’d have to have great paddle Zen going (I’ve never done it and have only seen the likes of Jessie Whitmore do it in a slalom K
). Again – I see others in open and deck canoes doing the same thing – I use my lefty stroke to get up and onto (into) the foampyle (air-aided) part of the wave then switch as I drop into the play feature. It just seems natural based on how things are set up in this situation. Some times (5-10%) I stay lefty (for a short period – I usually get washed out quicky lefty
) while I play but mostly I play “righty” (I stay in the feature longer).What I’m getting at is that I do what feels “right” or “left” for me in the situation at hand. I sometimes paddle flat sections lefty to be different or exercise those muscles but not often. I have rolled on my left (I never practiced it – it just happened when I was set up lefty and flipped – to which I was very thankful). But switching hands has never been a big issue or a problem. I also have done longer ferries and attains using just the lefty in me – some times in bigger pushy water (Cheat and Lower Gauley).
I don’t really paddle downriver often (race style requiring a longer craft and maybe different techniques) so overall I’d consider myself to be just an average C-boater paddling average class rivers in shorter boats - so maybe I’m not the best to baseline off to determine what’s best!
But couple things I do know: I was never formally taught to cboat
(open or decked) so whatever I do is based on what feels “natural” for me, and I’ll try to work on / think about my lefty paddling skills during the summer out on the river to help my skills grow! Keep these perplexing thoughts coming folks so I can expand my “C”nowledge!
CU out there! PAC
PS: Alden - your KAYAK paddle post was cruel – but it made me smile!!!
-
Paul C
my thoughts....
Some interesting thought crossed my mind based on all the related posts I’ve read to date on this issue. Note: I’m a righty by nature and mostly (again mostly) paddle righty!
First there are some really good cboaters out there both lefty and righty! Folks well above my skill set. That I know forgot more about cboating than I’ve ever learned.
Second I’m a “switch-y” (per RTs post) but only 10 to 20% of the time. And there are two basic reasons for it! It’s 1.) easier and 2.) more comfortable to me to come out of most river left eddies into up stream play spots. But I can’t say I’m stronger righty - just more comfortable.
For examples I’ll use two play spots on the Lower Yough (since a number of posters are familiar with this water)!
The first is Nemo’s (half way down Entrance Rapid) – if someone is already in the play hole you need to run the tongue on feature right (river left) to enter the staging eddie to play in this spot. In almost all cases I cross draw from a righty position to pull and enter this eddie. However, to exit the eddie I use a number of right (onside) strokes to start the feature attain, then aggressively switch to lefty status to finish the attain and to start the drop into the feature. While dropping in I switch back to right to surf and play!
Why I do it this way only the “God Hyrdo” knows. It’s just what “feels” right, to me - scratch that… what feels correct to me!! Oh, and I don’t do it 100% of the time – just about 80 - 90%. Go figure! Again it seems I do this naturally since I don’t think it through, just naturally “do” it.
The second feature is Swimmers hole at Swimmers Rapid. When coming up the eddie line (the waiting line that is - there almost always is a line to get into this feature during peak periods filled mostly with Ks) I paddle lefty! Why? It’s easier on my blade (shallow and rock shore on river left heading up into the feature) and it protects me from errant K blades hitting me in the face as they are being tossed about by those jockeying for position and trying to stay in line. Note: Entering from river right looks to be very hard since the entrance eddie is a way down stream. You’d have to have a boat with speed that can attain well (forget it in a shorter play boat) and no one every looks for you entering this way anyway so you’d have to have great paddle Zen going (I’ve never done it and have only seen the likes of Jessie Whitmore do it in a slalom K ).
Again – I see others in open and deck canoes doing the same thing – I use my lefty stroke to get up and onto (into) the foampyle (air-aided) part of the wave then switch as I drop into the play feature. It just seems natural based on how things are set up in this situation. Some times (5-10%) I stay lefty (for a short period – I usually get washed out quicky lefty ) while I play but mostly I play “righty” (I stay in the feature longer).
What I’m getting at is that I do what feels “right” or “left” for me in the situation at hand. I sometimes paddle flat sections lefty to be different or exercise those muscles but not often. I have rolled on my left (I never practiced it – it just happened when I was set up lefty and flipped – to which I was very thankful). But switching hands has never been a big issue or a problem. I also have done longer ferries and attains using just the lefty in me – some times in bigger pushy water (Cheat and Lower Gauley).
I don’t really paddle downriver often (race style requiring a longer craft and maybe different techniques) so overall I’d consider myself to be just an average C-boater paddling average class rivers in shorter boats - so maybe I’m not the best to baseline off to determine what’s best!
But couple things I do know: I was never formally taught to cboat (open or decked) so whatever I do is based on what feels “natural” for me, and I’ll try to work on / think about my lefty paddling skills during the summer out on the river to help my skills grow!
Keep these perplexing thoughts coming folks so I can expand my “C”nowledge!
CU out there! PAC
PS: Alden - your KAYAK paddle post was cruel – but it made me smile!!!
First there are some really good cboaters out there both lefty and righty! Folks well above my skill set. That I know forgot more about cboating than I’ve ever learned.
Second I’m a “switch-y” (per RTs post) but only 10 to 20% of the time. And there are two basic reasons for it! It’s 1.) easier and 2.) more comfortable to me to come out of most river left eddies into up stream play spots. But I can’t say I’m stronger righty - just more comfortable.
For examples I’ll use two play spots on the Lower Yough (since a number of posters are familiar with this water)!
The first is Nemo’s (half way down Entrance Rapid) – if someone is already in the play hole you need to run the tongue on feature right (river left) to enter the staging eddie to play in this spot. In almost all cases I cross draw from a righty position to pull and enter this eddie. However, to exit the eddie I use a number of right (onside) strokes to start the feature attain, then aggressively switch to lefty status to finish the attain and to start the drop into the feature. While dropping in I switch back to right to surf and play!
Why I do it this way only the “God Hyrdo” knows. It’s just what “feels” right, to me - scratch that… what feels correct to me!! Oh, and I don’t do it 100% of the time – just about 80 - 90%. Go figure! Again it seems I do this naturally since I don’t think it through, just naturally “do” it.
The second feature is Swimmers hole at Swimmers Rapid. When coming up the eddie line (the waiting line that is - there almost always is a line to get into this feature during peak periods filled mostly with Ks) I paddle lefty! Why? It’s easier on my blade (shallow and rock shore on river left heading up into the feature) and it protects me from errant K blades hitting me in the face as they are being tossed about by those jockeying for position and trying to stay in line. Note: Entering from river right looks to be very hard since the entrance eddie is a way down stream. You’d have to have a boat with speed that can attain well (forget it in a shorter play boat) and no one every looks for you entering this way anyway so you’d have to have great paddle Zen going (I’ve never done it and have only seen the likes of Jessie Whitmore do it in a slalom K
). Again – I see others in open and deck canoes doing the same thing – I use my lefty stroke to get up and onto (into) the foampyle (air-aided) part of the wave then switch as I drop into the play feature. It just seems natural based on how things are set up in this situation. Some times (5-10%) I stay lefty (for a short period – I usually get washed out quicky lefty
) while I play but mostly I play “righty” (I stay in the feature longer).What I’m getting at is that I do what feels “right” or “left” for me in the situation at hand. I sometimes paddle flat sections lefty to be different or exercise those muscles but not often. I have rolled on my left (I never practiced it – it just happened when I was set up lefty and flipped – to which I was very thankful). But switching hands has never been a big issue or a problem. I also have done longer ferries and attains using just the lefty in me – some times in bigger pushy water (Cheat and Lower Gauley).
I don’t really paddle downriver often (race style requiring a longer craft and maybe different techniques) so overall I’d consider myself to be just an average C-boater paddling average class rivers in shorter boats - so maybe I’m not the best to baseline off to determine what’s best!
But couple things I do know: I was never formally taught to cboat
(open or decked) so whatever I do is based on what feels “natural” for me, and I’ll try to work on / think about my lefty paddling skills during the summer out on the river to help my skills grow! Keep these perplexing thoughts coming folks so I can expand my “C”nowledge!
CU out there! PAC
PS: Alden - your KAYAK paddle post was cruel – but it made me smile!!!
-
sbroam
- CBoats.net Staff
- Posts: 3969
- Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:12 am
- Location: Lexington, SC
- Contact:
everybody else is doing it...
Everybody else is posting long thoughts on this, so what the heck!
I paddle righty unless, and almost only unless, I am in the stern of an OC-2 (and at my size, I am usually relegated to the stern - right wrong or indifferent) and we are on flat or mild white water and the bow paddler has asked to switch. Or I've had a wild hair (or hare?) and decided I need to work on my symmetry briefly (this usually lasts about 3 minutes). The first little wobble and I'm back on my right side. On my left side I have pooooor form, a weak brace, and only three or four rolls on record.
Why?
1. When first on the river, I frequently heard "See those folks swapping and flopping around over there? Must not know what they are doing!" This usually was describing the college kids in a rented canoe careening into the bank. Heck, I still hear that. That and none of the scant handful of good c-boaters I was exposed to in my formative years switched, so I figured "good" paddlers didn't...
2. Kent Ford said on a video once (and this might not be verbatim) - "You shouldn't have to switch hands to make a move". He also said something about being vulnerable during the time it took to make the switch. [Note - he did NOT say it was bad to switch, just bad to switch because you HAD to]
3. There are only a few things done exclusively with my left hand that do not feel awkward - typing the letters q,w,a,s,z and x and scratching my left ear are all that come to mind.
So... I got the (misguided) perception that it was somehow *inferior* to switch sides... Now I have a handicap - I look at holes and say, hmmm, that's a lefty hole, I'll just watch; I look at rapids and evaluate where I'm going to be vulnerable because of my lack of a low brace on the left; etc...
But on the other hand, so to speak, I'm *very* comfortable on cross strokes - they *feel* good - full extension on a hard cross bow draw peeling out of an eddy, turning it into a cross forward charging down stream, man, that's one of the things I'm here for. Those "flatwater freestyle" cross bow "jams" and "axles" feel neat. Wobbling to my onside, mid-rapid, with a cross stroke turning into an off-side high brace - yee-haw! I'm sure my form and technique are subpar and that someday I'm going to get tied in a knot doing a cross-compound-back-stroke...
I heard that Lugbill (or Hearn?) once demonstrated that you really didn't need cross strokes by running a race without executing one and, of course, beat everyone (kayakers included) handily. Contrariwise, I've looked at a rapid and thought - "hey, I bet I could run that entirely on cross strokes..."
Though thinking more rationally about this the last couple of years, and seeing the inherent advantages to being ambidextrous and having the freedom to switch sides, I now feel "stuck". When I paddle lefty, class II scares me, I can't make the boat go straight, and I have all the grace of a rhino on ice skates.
Am I beyond help?
I paddle righty unless, and almost only unless, I am in the stern of an OC-2 (and at my size, I am usually relegated to the stern - right wrong or indifferent) and we are on flat or mild white water and the bow paddler has asked to switch. Or I've had a wild hair (or hare?) and decided I need to work on my symmetry briefly (this usually lasts about 3 minutes). The first little wobble and I'm back on my right side. On my left side I have pooooor form, a weak brace, and only three or four rolls on record.
Why?
1. When first on the river, I frequently heard "See those folks swapping and flopping around over there? Must not know what they are doing!" This usually was describing the college kids in a rented canoe careening into the bank. Heck, I still hear that. That and none of the scant handful of good c-boaters I was exposed to in my formative years switched, so I figured "good" paddlers didn't...
2. Kent Ford said on a video once (and this might not be verbatim) - "You shouldn't have to switch hands to make a move". He also said something about being vulnerable during the time it took to make the switch. [Note - he did NOT say it was bad to switch, just bad to switch because you HAD to]
3. There are only a few things done exclusively with my left hand that do not feel awkward - typing the letters q,w,a,s,z and x and scratching my left ear are all that come to mind.
So... I got the (misguided) perception that it was somehow *inferior* to switch sides... Now I have a handicap - I look at holes and say, hmmm, that's a lefty hole, I'll just watch; I look at rapids and evaluate where I'm going to be vulnerable because of my lack of a low brace on the left; etc...
But on the other hand, so to speak, I'm *very* comfortable on cross strokes - they *feel* good - full extension on a hard cross bow draw peeling out of an eddy, turning it into a cross forward charging down stream, man, that's one of the things I'm here for. Those "flatwater freestyle" cross bow "jams" and "axles" feel neat. Wobbling to my onside, mid-rapid, with a cross stroke turning into an off-side high brace - yee-haw! I'm sure my form and technique are subpar and that someday I'm going to get tied in a knot doing a cross-compound-back-stroke...
I heard that Lugbill (or Hearn?) once demonstrated that you really didn't need cross strokes by running a race without executing one and, of course, beat everyone (kayakers included) handily. Contrariwise, I've looked at a rapid and thought - "hey, I bet I could run that entirely on cross strokes..."
Though thinking more rationally about this the last couple of years, and seeing the inherent advantages to being ambidextrous and having the freedom to switch sides, I now feel "stuck". When I paddle lefty, class II scares me, I can't make the boat go straight, and I have all the grace of a rhino on ice skates.
Am I beyond help?
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Space Canoe
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Oh, YEAH?!!!
Yeah, I got your kayak paddle right here, Alden! KAYAK THIS!!!
HEE HEE!
Ok, You’re right, but I offer two words in my defense = Nolan Whitsell.
Go to any Class 2 Rapid and find an eddy with a rock at the top and then try to attain upstream around it with offside strokes, and then try to attain around it by switching sides (to your “bad” side) and paddling with onside power strokes. Production-wise; No Contest!
Yeah, to heck with you toughies, I’m a Both-y and proud!!!!
And Scott, you young Whippersnapper, get out there and start switching, it’s never too late, but the longer that you wait, the harder it is!
RT
HEE HEE!
Ok, You’re right, but I offer two words in my defense = Nolan Whitsell.
Go to any Class 2 Rapid and find an eddy with a rock at the top and then try to attain upstream around it with offside strokes, and then try to attain around it by switching sides (to your “bad” side) and paddling with onside power strokes. Production-wise; No Contest!
Yeah, to heck with you toughies, I’m a Both-y and proud!!!!
And Scott, you young Whippersnapper, get out there and start switching, it’s never too late, but the longer that you wait, the harder it is!
RT
Ha! I'm pretty comfortable paddling just about anything less than class V on my right side. I used to claim I was only a class II boater on my left side. A few months ago I was teaching a class and demonstrating a few simple strokes on my left side to a lefty student. It was in a section of river that was probably class I. Much to my surprise I ended up tipping over and swimming. (I have a whole series of excuses for not rolling). I guess my left sided claims were a bit over inflated.
sometimes open, sometimes closed, but always on my knees