C-Forum

Any thoughts on the following?

Paddling a converted Super Ego with a Dagger Console and Dagger Tigh Straps, the Seat position is around 7 1/2 - 8 1/2" high (can't remember exactly). Now I've padded the Knees with the Camping Mat to prevent too much slipping sideways, the Backrest is limited in height, that I am sure is an issue, (it's almost like a OC1 Saddle).

So, how have you all coped with slipping backwards or going upside down and the Thighs working loose? Do you rely solely on the Back-rest to prevent back slippage or does anyone use Footpegs. I don't have my Thigh Straps such that they impede a 'wet exit' ie. over the top of the Thighs near to the Groin otherwise I'll be well stuck, I prefer to slide backwards.

I know there is a compromise to everything but your thought'd be appreciated.

Ta all

If I understand your concerns / issues in this post you are looking to stop the dreaded un-requested wet exit.
There are a number of ways to address this and I’ll note the ones I use:
o Thigh straps that are in close and run up over the high (fat part) of my thigh.
o Widen the knee spacing – wide is good. I use mini cell to block out my knees into the “best” position.
o Butt block – a block that sits behind me to keep my behind from getting further behind.
o Ankle blocks which I use to apply pressure against to hold me in as needed.
o Thigh block which comes across the front to the cockpit (Less scary than a lap belt in my opinion). Also helps to keep the spray skirt from being pushed in when play boating.
o Modification of the seat angle by adding a minor slope in the pedestal from back to front. This is a racing boat trick.
What others use:
o Toe blocks that can be used to hold you in position. I don’t like them – the hurt (at least my feet).
o Suicide lap belt - I’ve tried them and the work – holding you in tight. But they freak me out based on my skill level and fear of me not getting to the release when I absolutely needed. Not for the faint of heart.
o Double thigh straps – straps that go both high (meaty) part of the thigh and lower above the knee. Needless to say they run across the leg at different angles. Seth has this set up in his Skip and it was really nice.
o Hip pads – work well but I don’t currently use them in my outfitting due to the way my set up is configured. I use mini cell on the outside of my thighs (below the straps). This moves the contact point lower in the boat and helps free up hip rotation.
I hope this helps and let us know how you fair!

I find that I will slip somewhat out of thighstraps on a flip when the thighstraps cross my thighs at a diagonal. I stay in place in the boats where the thighstraps cross my thighs straight across/perpendicular. What also helps is padding the knees fairly wide and having the thighstraps crossing my thighs about midway (between the knees and groin. I'm not fond of the lap belt (read: suicide strap) or a significant back pad to keep me in my seat. The higher back pad tends to limit my torso rotation.

I recommend you adjust your thigh straps, add more knee pads to the insides of your legs (to move the knees out wider), and make sure you have comfortably snug hip pads. See how secure you feel.

KNeal

I definitely second the hip pad thought. I have a converted Wavesport Z, ordinary thigh straps, no toe blocks, 5-1/2 inch saddle, and the key to staying in are the hip pads. I made the pads by glueing together several pieces of minicell, then glueing the composite into the boat (you can also attach using industrial velcro, but it doesn't seem to last more than a month or so).

The hip pads need to be carefully shaped so you can slip in easily, but still get squeezed against the cockpit when you are in place, so you don't move. Even with tight fitting hip pads, I can wet exit without releasing the thigh straps (safety first in my book). Easiest way to shape the pads is to glue them in at least 1 inch or so too fat, then shave them down with a rasp or Surform until you get the exact shape you want. Take it slow, enjoy the shaping experience. I am not perfectly symmetrical, I think most people are not, so don't be too surprised if the pads come out different on either side. I find that they are about right when you can feel firm pressure when you get in. If you shape the pads without the wetsuit on, it will be a little tighter when you put the wetsuit on, which is probably not a big problem. I like to use relatively stiff foam, since soft foam does not squeeze well enough.

lots of good ideas in the posts above. I set up my creek boat with a bulkhead for my knees, but it does not come up my legs, so very easy to get out of. I use this combined with thigh straps and hip pads, not nearly as tight when rolling as my playboat with a lapbelt, but secure enough most of the time. I`d seriously think of adding a bulkhead with cut outs for your knees, helps lock the legs down, but by keeping the feet clear (no foot blocks or footpegs, yikes!), you should be easily able to slide your legs back a few inches and fall out. Keep the thigh straps, and lock in your knees.

I generally make my outfitting too tight when I first put it together at home. Once on the river it settles a little, gets wet and usually fits nice and snug.

Generally, how high do you make your buttblock? Mine is only about 2" but I find myself sitting up on top of it after several rolls. Any righer than that and it seems to push up into my spine if I get my upper torso pushed backwards too far. I had a 5" block in my last boat which held me in well but it caused me to hearnate a disk when I got blown backward in a strong hydralic.
Larry

Another thought on thigh straps- I have had much more luck with seat-belt webbing. I find that padded/formed thigh straps tend to slide more, and that plain old webbing holds me in the best.

Good luck.

Jim

If find that seat belt webbing slips through Fastex buckles (plastic - also Nibroc, others?), but 2" tubular webbing does not. Also the texture is "grippier" on my legs, though even that slips some. I've thought about putting a coat of Aquaseal (or generic equivalent) on there to fix that.

In some C-1s I have (or had), though, the "bulkhead", hip blocks, knee cups, and "couch" (think "wrap around back block) more than make up for any slipping of the straps. A frequent comment, particularly from kayakers is "how do you fit in here?"

In my less extensively outfitted boats (i.e. my Rock-it) that have only straps, knee cups (wedges, really) and a moderate seat back, its more up to me to stay in through leg action. The common comment, particularly from c-boaters, is "how do you stay in there?". How? Years of paddling very loosely outfitted boats, taught me to actively stay in the boat...

Scott

Hi

I was also having problems with my thighs working loose. I added a seatbelt to keep msyelf on the seat for rolling, but wasn't really happy with that as it takes ~5secs extra to wet exit by the time I find the buckle and release it. Don't like that idea for running hard stuff, but I also don't like the idea of falling out of my boat! I just triued a solution and have found that it's working great so far (one trip on the Ottawa - including hopping into various holes and surf waves) and one trip on the Rouge).

So this is what I did...instead of having a single thigh strap, my straps cross my legs twice. The longer piece is anchored against hull comes in across my legs, through the anchor and back out across my upper thigh, where it is met by the other half the buckle on a strap anchored to the bolts holding my hip hugger. There's only one buckle to tighten and it's easy to reach and release, although I haven't had to wet exit from this yet....probably should try that. (I can get out without releasing the buckles while upright on dry land though).

Credit where credit is due....I got the idea from the Mike Yee system (which I just ordered for an OC2 I'm outfitting). My straps are plain 2" wide seat belt webbing.

I have found that over time these work through the triglides I use to fix the position of the buckle on the short piece of webbing, but I just noticed that I've actually deformed the triglides bending the central bar and creating a flat flow-path for the webbing, which is what allows the webbing to slip...next thing is to try to find a stronger replacement for these...probably a metal one.

One last note: I have this set up mounted on an old Gyramax pedastal which forms the core of my outfitting. The straps are mounted to the hip hugger anchors (the old seat bolts when it was a kayak), pass through slots cut in the ribs running down the center of the pedastal and are then anchored to a slot I cut in the edge of the console base sheet.

I've got a new camera coming shortly, so will post some pictures when it gets here (and I figure out how to do so of course).

Hope this helps

Matt

I had the same problem in my Cascade. I made a new back-rest that is 5.75" above the seat. With this set up I no longer slip out of the straps. When I set up my Big EZ I made the back-rest 5" above the seat. This works well too.

Another idea is to drill additional holes in the console & move the center anchor point for the thigh-straps closer to your crotch. This helps keep your butt down on the seat, but allows more knee movement than I wanted. I could have padded out the knee area more, but I'm lazy & moved the straps back.

Mike W.