C-Forum

This Sunday on my weekly pilgrimage to the Lower Yough I had an interesting experience that I want to share, but not re-live.
While at Swimmers rapid (no line as usual for a Sunday afternoon ) I was doing the usual surf/play thing. While I was transitioning from a front to a back surf, in the middle of the hole, I caught an edge and flipped . As in all flips at Swimmer (and elsewhere) I tucked to protect my nogg’n with my head as close the deck as possible. That’s when I hit the back of my head on the bottom of the hole (big flat rock)! Hard! Very hard!!!
I hit hard enough not only feel the point of contact at the base my skull but also in the front of skull.
I wasn’t knocked out (that once happen to me at Swimmers years ago when the light weight ACE helmets were the helmets of choice – but thanks to alert buddies things worked out fine) but I was fazed and dazed and DAM-IT IT HURT!!!
After I rolled and floated down stream a bit, trying to getting my act together, I realized what happened. I also then realized that I had just received a mild (very mild) concussion. I then proceeded to head for shore, update my buddies on what happened and took a break until I felt I was ok enough to paddle on.
The helmet I was wearing my LIDDS Slugger – one I feel has good protection (except around the ears (that is a trade off I was willing to make). There is a review on Boatertalk at http://www.boatertalk.com/article.php?id=79 as to this helmet.
But where I hit was not on the helmet proper but on the adjustment dial (occipital lock) that is used to make size adjustments / keep the helmet in place.
Unlike the helmet which is a composite lay-up with an EPP liner, this is a plastic piece attached to the back of the helmet that protects the base of the skull / top of the cervical spine. It also has a thin layer of minicell (EFP?) between it and the head.
Did it work in protecting my head – yep! Does the “occipital lock” do its job in holding the helmet securely in place and stop slippage – yep! Am I glad I had that kind of coverage – you bet!!!
Would I have hit as hard if it wasn’t there or in a different helmet – who knows?!?!? But I’m not sure I want to find out.
My questions to the group are:
1. Does anyone else have this kind of experience?
2. What issues do we, as c1ers, take into consideration when buying a helmet?
3. Basically what helmets are being worn and why?

PS: I double checked the helmet last night and very thing looks ok. I’m fine too (I think)!

A good helmet is definitely one of the BEST and MOST important things do purchase. I really liked C1Deli's research into helmets, and this list he compiled. It's now posted here-
http://www.cboats.net/faq/hats.html (within the FAQ) for the curious.

I look for full coverage, composite construction, and a good liner. I've got an old Resin Heads helmet I REALLY like, and it's served me well so far.

I'm glad you're OK-and double - check that helmet for stress fractures alll over the place, just to be sure before re-using it.

It seems from the article in the FAQ that everyone is steering away from plastic helmets to composite ones....I've noticed it on the river but basically assumed it was more because of fashion than function. Maybe not? I admit there are many poor plastic helmets on the market, but are they all bad?

I use a plastic Cascade "shorty" helmet. I've had it for a few years and it really seems solid. I've taken some serious hits (minorly concussed myself once in Zoar gap early on in my paddling...found the hammer, or was it the anvil?) and many minor ones. This helmet was a thicker, stiffer plastic shell than most of the other plastic helmets I've seen and is based on hockey helmet technology. When I say stiffer, I mean it - not flimsy like some where you can virtually tie them in knots!

The liner is an expanded foam, but I'm not sure which one. It looks similar to poly(styrene) but I can't guarantee that as many polymers can look similar if processed in certain ways; it's similar to bike helmets.

As far as coverage goes, it covers far more than most of the composite helmets I've seen and is the same length at the back as the standard, full-cut Cascade. The difference is that the grid over the ears is cut away (they actually mold them as full helmets and cut them down post-molding....or they used to). The full cut cascade also comes with a facemask and I have several friends using that combination.

Price-point?... about $55 full retail I think. It may seem stupid to use that as a factor, but paddling is an expensive sport to get into and as a student it was definitely a consideration. For comparison, the flimsy Pro-tec helmets are about the same price.

Myself and a few others have converted both our university Outing Club, plus the university outdoor education program over to using Cascades. A huge improvement over the previous supply.

What next? I'm starting to look for a new lid myself, but have yet to find a composite helmet with coverage I like at a price I can afford...atleast not such to convince me to replace this one.

Matt

Dang, PAC ! I'm glad you're doing okay, but ya gotta stop checkin' river depths with your noggin' and start trusting the river guages . You should have asked me that question when I was paddling with you a couple of weekends ago. I have a Grateful Heads Hard Hit that I have used for 5-6 years and it has received several shots from nasty rocks over the years--as a matter of context, the helmet has received several hard hits ! The helmet has served me very well and I do recommend it as a safe helmet. It's probably about time I get another one.

I remember a couple of years ago on the Upper Gauley, a paddling buddy of mine told me to be sure to, "not go left on the second drop," in Lost Paddle. Armed with that forewarning, I peeled out of the eddy and proceeded to run the left side of that second drop. As is typical in that spot, I flipped, tucked, set up for a quick roll, and WHAM ! A solid shot to the back of the head by a significantly edged rock . I decided that tucking was the better choice for the rest of the runout until the rapid settled down a little bit before the 3rd drop, thinking that it would be better for the back of the helmet and my pfd take the rest of the abuse instead of putting my noggin in another compromising position with another roll attempt right then. I rolled up and sat there floating downstream evaluating how I am doing functionally and cognitively after that shot. I was basically okay, but I was definitely dizzy and my neck was VERY sore from being wrenched by that unanticipated impact. The gouge is still apparent on my helmet. Wanna see it sometime?

When it comes to helmets, don't compromise. I was struck by 2 different cars on 2 different days riding my bicycle and ruined 2 perfectly good $85 helmets, and I am glad they did their job well. Both times, the cars pulled out in front of me causing me to run into their front fenders, launching me off my bike, over their vehicles, and right on top of my head. If I had a cheaper, inferior-grade helmet, I would have had significant brain damage (more than I exhibit now ). I highly recommend the composites over plastic and having coverage come over the ears. Any less coverage and you are exposing those areas to impact injuries. DO NOT buy a helmet with a seam that joins it together. Pac, I would really like to see your helmet, the damage it took, and that occipital lock device.

KNeal

Glad you are OK!

My personal gripe is that the current crop of helmets have very little ear coverage, in fact ear coverage is frequently pooh poohed - "you can't heeear with all that". However, I like my ears, and the function they serve. And with two very good paddlers that I know that have suffered burst ear drums on the river, I think I'll keep mine covered.

I was sold on Lidd's technology and bought a Nato. It covers the ears, but still not as much as my old Seda. Now it seems that Lidds are out of business? Or just in the process of assimilation by the Borg, er, Watermark?

Scott

Glad to read that you're ok.

I use a Bell "water sports helmet". I bought it because of Bell's reputation for making race car & motorcycle helmets. I figured that Bell has been making helmets for racers for ever & I trust them.

The helmet is not listed on their web-site & I haven't seen one in shops or catalogs in a long time. I got it a few years back from NRS. It's a plastic shell with what looks like styrofoam lining. The sticker inside says that it meets the European standard for water sports helmets. If I remember correctly it gives a number for the standard. Sticker also states that it's good for up to class IV whitewater.

It has real good forehead & lower back of head coverage. The ears are open, which I prefer for comfort. I know that ear coverage is safer. I tied an ear plug to the off-side stern of the helmet, which I stick in my ear when I think I may flip. Seems that I most often flip to my off-side & there's a lot of presure on that ear when it hits the water.

I've taken two real hard hits to the back of my head with this helmet. There is no visible damage, yeah, I know that doesn't mean that there isn't damage. The last & worst hit left me dizzy for a while & I had a headache for several days.

I've been thinking of getting a composite helmet. Who makes the best? I saw a guy take a hit in a composite last year (I don't remember the brand/model) that left a hole in his helmet. Whatever he hit did not mess up his head, but it ruined the helmet. Before I buy, I'll check with him to be sure that I don't get what he had.

For photos go to: http://photos.yahoo.com/wh20crazy Click on "Yahoo P..." Then click either of the 1st two shots "Bottom W..." for a front view. Click "Side Surf" for a rear view.

Mike W.

Thanks folks for all the interest, thoughts, and input regarding helmets. Upon review of my helmet yesterday I’m definitely in the market for a new one - after last weekends “experience”.
When I got off the river last weekend I had looked at the helmet and everything looked ok with it (or at least that's what I thought I saw). But this weekend when I looked at it….. I found a major scuff mark (well through the gel / color coat) on the helmet proper and a big ding in the locking mechanism. In addition, when I place the helmet on my head and tightened the mechanism it failed, broke, snapped!!! Yikes!!! But at least it worked when it was needed!!!!
Since everything looked ok last Sunday and I still had a headache on Monday I guess I wasn’t fully “there” on Sunday. Pretty scary since I “knew” I had a concussion and “thought” I was doing all the right things related to it.
Final conclusion – buy the best helmet you can and if you take a blow to the head (or see a buddy take one) be very aware of what is / can happen. AND TRIPLE CHECK THAT HELMET!!!
See you at the helmet booths at Gualey Fest!

my mom wants me to up grade to one of those composite axis war helmet looking things. dose anyone know how well the things reailly work. right now im useing a cheap wild-wasser helmet with out ear protection. i dont do any thing hard at all so would i need a composite helmet.
money is tight and i need to up grade from my gyramax to something newer.
what should i spend my money on.
thanks
Ronnie

Welcome to our c-forum! First question I have for you is "where do you live?". I ask this because if you are near one of us other c-boating participants, you may be able to get together or join us at one of our paddling trips and check out all the different gear that are being used (e.g. paddles, helmets, boats, techniques, etc.).

Now, the question about what type helmet to get. There are different ways to approach the answer, like: "how much do you value your noggin", and "you get what you pay for", or "wear what works for you". I'll try to express my opinion simply by stating that you get the helmet you can afford, that you like (meets your "style requirements"), and keeps your mom relatively happy without absolutely giving in to her (that was my attempt at some high-brow humor ). I do not think there is much research data out there that says if a composite whitewater helmet is safer than a plastic helmet, but look at the material used in a motorcycle helmet. The more expensive (and safer?) models do not have plastic in the shell and virtually all models are composite. I, personally, would encourage you to buy a composite helmet because you can find a model style and color you will like plus have a helmet that has a better chance of protecting your "brain bucket" better than plastic.

That is my opinion and should not be used as your sole quide in your decision-making process. I have been very pleased with my helmet and will stick with that model as long as it is manufactured. I wish you the best with your financially limited choices and good luck with keeping your mom happy. That is tough to do. I know because I have one too ! And her birthday is today .

KNeal

My 2 cents on helmets: The helmet must be designed to cushion and distribute forces across the skull AND be able to endure repeated trauma. That is very different from the design of bicycle/motorcycle helmets, which must absorb impact (because of the velocity involved in those activities), which is usually achieved by the material collapsing. As noted in the previous post, there is not yet evidence to indicate a superior design in whitewater helmets.

I spent 14 years in plastic- a Pro-tec- and given the way I paddle it was really field-tested. A while back one of the rivets holding the straps corroded through and I fixed it with a small bolt. I took this as a indication that it was time for a new helmet (that, and all the mold in my old one).

I recently bought a helmet from Kaz at Millbrook Boats (http://www.millbrookboats.com/) and I was thrilled with the value: $50 for a kevlar helmet. This helmet also held up to my field testing- last month at the bottom of the Dryway (Deerfield River) I tried moving a rock with my head. I really clocked the rock hard and the helmet performed spectacularly (unlike my paddling immediately before the accident, which was greatly enjoyed by my partners).

Take a look at Millbrook Boats and good luck with your shopping.

Jim

Ronnie
Where are you located - I'm sure someone off this forum is close enough to help you out!
As for the helmet - man this is a tough one! I've been looking very hard for the last two weeks and have yet to find the "ultimate" helmet for me.
I'm looking for a helmet that is composite with a good sub liner. Has a multiple strapping system, visor (sun and rain / sleet), "blow back" protection, comfort and some ear protection (thank you Scott).
Style would be nice but that is the lowest priority on my list (if you've seen me boat you'll understand why )!
My feeling on price is that is it is just a notch above style!
No way am I going to give up protection of the only body part that can't be replaced!
Personally, I now feel my helmet and PFD are on equal footing when it comes to boating. Above my paddle, spray skirt , boat, etc.. Ok enough preaching!!! Others feel free to commit here!!
All I can say is look long and hard for the "right" helmet for you based on your needs (creeking, playing, river running)!
And if you explain the importance of the helmet to the folks I'm sure they will help out with funding!
Be safe ....

wow thanks ill most likely up grade soon. both with a new boat and new helmet around the same time if i cant afford both ill look into a cheaper boat or into more yards to mow and thanks for all your help again.

by the way i cant spell at all so sorry about the poor spelling (bad school systome maby?)

we on this cforum dont's flame other boqaterfs for therie lack fo typing skiilss. If I was a good typoist i wooudl have ajob a s a secretary

Kneal
kneel
Neal

Hey all... I was just up in Ottawa and Bushtukah is clearing out hteir remaining helmet stock for 50% off. They have some Cascades (full cut and reduced cut - still good protection from that one) and a few Shred Ready Vixens. Some Protecs too, but not a model I think is worth having. The cascade helmets are $33 CANADIAN - for a helmet that retails for $50US, that's a hades of a deal. That's the helmet I have and I swear by it. They also have the Metal Face Guards (cascade chin bars too, but again I don't like those) for $33 Canadian. You can find info on how to reach them at www.bushtukah.com.

NB: If you ask them to ship...MAKE SURE YOU INSIST THEY SHIP CANADA POST! If you ship UPS, they'll charge you about $25 extrea is customs brokering fees at the border, without asking you first and the total tax due will probably be all of $2. Avoid the tax and the fees by using the mail.

Enjoy!

Matt

i once used my brother's old ski helmet on a cold day, and i realized that it provides superior coverage, so i always wear it now when creeking. it's a boeri (sp?) with basically full coverage down to the neck and around the ears and nice soft stuff inside. it's actually not too hot in the summer either, believe it or not. of course, my other helmet is an Ace . . .