C-Forum

Ok, here we go, again (or, perhaps, "Oh no, not again"):

The 2003 Fall Hudson Armada

October (that's right folks, OCTOBER) 3-5th, 2003

Hudson Gorge, Adirondacks (upstate NY)

Friday
Arrive when you can. Folks who take the day off an show up by 3 or so will most likely be treated to a class II or II-III run of the Sacandaga or one of the lower sections of the Hudson

Saturday
Get up early and get to the put-in to run the Hudson Gorge (Class III-IV). If there is a lot of interest in it I may look into finding a friend to guide a raft down full of people who may not feel up to 17 miles of paddling, or the class IV aspect of it (there are only two class IV's, and yes, you can portage around them. There are many GOOD class IIIs though)

Saturday night
Dinner at a local restaurant (like last year), or a bonfire and grilling (weather-dependent)

Sunday
Relaxing morning, either a class II/III paddle on the lower Hudson or flopping around in the many boats I have lying around in a local lake.

Important notes:
1) It will be "chilly" for some folks this time of year, but it should be PEAK fall foliage. Those from the deep south will want to wear drysuits. Canadiens will prefer their T-shirts, of course .

2) PLEASE only plan on paddling the gorge if you think you're up to it. Hopefully several people (CDawg, Kelly-Rand, NZMatt?) will post their thoughts on the Hudson to give you an idea what it's "really like"

3) I will provide at a minimum a place to camp that is BEAUTIFUL (Kelly-Rand has been there), and you can either sleep in a Barn or tent it. Running water and an outhouse are available.

4) I hope to have a shuttle arranged for us to make life easier.

5) It is CHEAP to fly via Southworst to Albany NY -I may be convinced to pick you up at the airport and loan you a boat and spray skirt....e-mail me if you're interested (this is to entice those living farther away that I know...those I don't, e-mail me anyway and we'll C what we can work out.)

6) If there is a lot of interest in it I may look into finding a friend to guide a raft down full of people who may not feel up to 17 miles of paddling, or the class IV aspect of it .

More info will be posted as we get closer to the date. You can also check last year's Hudson Armada page on the "Home" page.

Hey Sir Adam! We're planning on coming! Working out logistics and may very well end up driving after all...we'll keep you updated on progress.
Might want to borrow that Magnet if still up for grabs??? We have plenty of skirts that will fit it.
Lookin' forward to it!!!
T

You can certainly borrow the Magnet, Tess! The cockpit is standard size slalom (aka "small").

In case others are curious, the following are boats I'd consider lending to run the gorge (others are available to play in the Sacandaga or a lake):

Atom
Actobat (standard cut)
Blackwater
Cascade
Cut down Superbatmax (or is it a Batmax CDawg?)
Fanatic II
Gyramax
Hahn (if you really want to...)
Magnet (Tess has dibs so far...)
Noah Aeroquatic C1 (actually a nice, forgiving boat)
Slasher

The "other boats" to play around with, but not in the gorge include:
Ace II
Acrobat (master cut)
Centaur
Groove
Oxygen
Tomahawk C2

Ok, I'll try and edit this as people post or e-mail....

Possible attendees at the Armada:

Sir Adam
J. Not Elvis Den Mother Robbins
Tess (aka SaraC)
NZ Matt
Jo
Kelly-Rand
Kalin of the Great White Nord!
Alden B
Martin
PAC?

I'm in and I'd guess that Jo will come too. What's the level likely to be like? I'll paddle both days, but Jo would probably prefer the raft option for the Gorge.

Matt

Add me to the list of probables. I also want to let folks know the West Fest is the weekend of September 20th. 3 mi. of continuous WW, Class III. There will be hords of people, but it has never bothered me. You can chedk the AW site for more info.

Sir Adam et al,

At this point in time I have NO reason not to be there! I will do my best to round up some fellow Canadian C-boaters, we'll pack our best t-shirts for the chilly water and we'll c-you then!

Question: 17 MILES sounds like a lot (what's that in Canadian? )....are there any other options in terms of put in/take out that would work? Or does it flow the whole way, in which case 17 miles is hardly long enough/"we'll be done by lunch" type of thing......just thinking of some knees that would not approve of 17 miles in one day...any thoughts?

Also: Are all the rivers listed "playboatable"?

Cheers,
Kalin of the Great White North

Yep, 17miles (30km) is a long day, as Kalin pointed out, but there really aren't (to my knowledge) any alternative put ins. It's a wilderness run where at most stages you are several miles from the nearest road. That's why it's important to be confident you are ready for the run before putting on...there is no easy way to get out once you're going if you find you're over your head.

At this point let me note that I've only paddled this river once before, at around 4' (I think) this last May. If my recollection is faulty, I ask those more knowledgeable (Sir Adam, others?) about the river to correct me rather than have me unintentionally mislead people.

As to the flow...the first 3(?) miles is on the Indian and that is continuous class III whitewater. Lots of waves but not really any significant play features that I recall (from a run this spring at around 4'). A couple of larger eddies for regrouping if necessary, but even those are few and far between. I ran this in my OC1 (Detonator) and had a bit of trouble on the first section until I remembered how to waveblock... a necessary skill on this river in an open boat. It's a completely different beast to the pool drop rivers I more commonly paddle where you can empty your boat after each rapid.

After the Indian/Hudson confluence, the rapids become somewhat more distinct: they're still typically long, but there is some flatwater in between and a few more playable spots. The hardest rapids (a couple rated at class IV - I would say more like a IV- based on technical difficulty, but they're also in the Hudson so the water is bigger) are on this section, although I don't recall getting out to scout anything when I ran it. But I was paddling with a group who all knew the river well. I'm also more prone to "read and run" (maybe that should be "read on the run") than many people I know.

As to the nature of the rapids...I would describe this more as a technical run than a big water run, atleast at these water levels. The hudson is pretty big, but my recollection of the difficulty (and the corresponding gradings I have mentioned) are mainly based on technical difficulty...that's a quick note for those more familiar with big water rivers as it seems to be the gradings are very different even when the numbers are the same.

At the end of the run there is a sizeable section of flat/moving water to get to the takeout. It is a full day's run and many people these days don't paddle it because of the length (according to the folks I paddled with). We were on the river at the end of May and saw one other group of paddlers (other than the raft companies).

As a wilderness run, the scenery is superb (when you can take your eyes off the river long enough to admire it) and I expect it will be amazing with the fall colours. Several of the folks I paddled with commented to this effect.

I hope that helps people understand the river a bit more. I would provide more detail, but I have a terrible memory for individual rapids, when I don't stop and scout them, until I've paddled a river a half dozen times. Please also note, that I ran this at fairly low flows...I'm guessing those will be similar to what we'll encounter in October, but this river changes significantly at higher water levels. It becomes even more continuous and most of the rapids get bigger and harder rather than washing out.

See you all in October.

Matt

PS...even if you don't feel up to paddling it yourself, hop on the raft and come and play with us!

Ok, first off, glad to hear you hope to make it NZMatt, Kalin!, and Kelly-Rand! it will be good to boat with all of your (and J and Tess) again!

The Hudson is most likely different than most rivers many of you have run in several respects-
1) It's a long wilderness trip
2) The rapids (at "normal" fall levels-3-5') are technical, not big
3) The river, though not as wide as the Ottawa in all spots, is fairly wide-there is more than just 1 line down the river, and with only a few exceptions (namely the class IV rapids) you can pretty much boat where you'd like (although some lines are easier than others)

So, here we go-THE HUDSON:
The first 3 miles are actually on the Indian River as NZMatt stated-3 miles of class III, with one great spot to regroup, and several smaller ones. The first rapid is Indian Head, followed by the FInch Pruyn Islands (regrouping spot, not really a rapid), and Gooley Steps. Also, as NZ Matt stated this is fairly continuous class III stuff-if you are comfortable paddling in moving water (read waves and small holes) you'll be fine. Also, at normal fall levels the Indian, though only class III, will be the toughest part of the day (due to it's continuous nature).

Then the Confluence with the Hudson. This is the last point you can take out for many miles (and even here requires a bit of a walk, but there is a road at least, though it is private)

The first rapid on the Hudson is Cedar Ledges. Class IIish at normal fall levels, IIIish if higher, but really a float and chat for most folks.

We can stop off at Virgin Falls (nice little water fall on the side of the river where a stream enters into the Hudson) and stretch our legs a bit

Next is Blue Ledge-at 5' or so I think it is defined as Class V in an old guide book-I seriously DO NOT SEE IT. Class III, yes, and V when there is A LOT of water, but seriously, it's no more difficult than the Indian. This is the half-way point by mileage, but not time.

Just below this is a GREAT surf wave river right (and a great squirt line above it in Blue Ledge Pool, also river right). There is a public trail into the river at this point (3 miles round trip, I think), and it's a good lunch spot.

The surf wave is the very top of the Narrows, the bottom of which is the first class IV of the day. It is portageable. It features BIG waves (not ottawa-sized, though), and one hold to avoid (very easy to avoid it, again, if your comfortable paddling in moving water).

Below the Narrows is Osprey Nest, a fun little bouncy class III, and a HUGE pool (square eddy) to regroup in).

After Square Eddy is Carters, or Split Rock. There is a hole river center (the appropriately named "Big Nasty" (hear that KNeal? BIG NASTY ) to avoid, but it's super easy if you know it's there. Carters is long, but there are eddys to catch, and it's class IIIish. You do need to watch out for "Little Nasty"(another souse hole) near the end, but at lower levels (3') the rock that causes it is out of the water.

After Carters is OK Slip, which is short with some pools,

This leads into Giveny's Rift, the second class IV of the day, and the most serious water on this section of the river. Again, it is portageable. J. will no doubt have fun playing in it, but the rest of us will most likely just run it straight. It's short, and there is a bit pool at the bottom, but there are a lot of rocks, and the currents are strong. For those that have paddled the North Branch, think of a bigger, longer, steeper Robins Nest. Multiple small drops to paddle through (no really trashy holes at this level, though).

After that is Gunsight In and Out (fun little class IIIs agian), and Harris (aka Mile Long). Fairly continuous class II/III, with a few holes right off river-right on shore to avoid.

Next is Greyhound Bus Stop, and almost river-wide play feature (hole in this case). A great way to end the day is to use what energy remains here Nice eddy, and very deep after the ledge itself (remember to tuck on those windowshades...). There is also a nice surf wave just above it.

The last few miles are float or paddle, depending on how tired everyone is. If the rive is up (closer to 5') it's a quick float. Closer to 3' and it's a long float unless you paddle (I think it's 2 Miles or so, though it may be 3).

More Information:
To check out the river level-http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ny/nwis/uv?01315500 (this also shows CFS as well as feet) and more information about the Hudson- http://www.americanwhitewater.org/rivers/id/1321/.

A consistent role and comfort in moving water is required, as this is a long trip, and it will be fall paddling in New England (as previously mentioned, most folks from south of NYS will most likely be most comfortable in a drytop.) The scenery is unbelievably gorgous (no pun intended ), especially during this time of year (fall foliage).

Anyone else that would like to add there thought on the Hudson, please do so-I've been guiding the gorge for the past 10 years, and it's familiar territory to me-fresh perspectives like NZMatts and others are very welcome.

In case you wonder what sorts of boats travel this regularly, XXX, Z's, Forplays and Scores are not uncommon. The river manager for one rafting company "safety boats" in an S6. I makes for a loooong day, but he has fun.

hey adam,
im a possible too. im over in vermont, and ive never run the hudson, so i'd like to get out there. im just not sure what else is on the schedule. list me as possible . . .
Alden

Your describtion of the Hudson sounds very interesting, so count me in as a possible. I am not yet sure if I'll really be able yo make it (the four letter word that starts with a W and ends with ORK might prevent me forom attending).

Martin

Ok...so I can start organizing a rafting option for the Saturday of the Armada (to float along with us)-how many folks would be interested?

I know so far we have:
Jo
AdkSara

if the level is higher I definately would be more comfortable in a raft than the hard boat. 18 miles is gonna be interesting on the knees for sure!!!
Looking forward to it Adam!

Go north or go south..... hummmm.....
Well since Adam asked first I start my program of deception, sub defuse and confusion earlier in the month with the wife!
This of course failed right from the start!!!!
I then started pleading and begging program (I'm not above admitting this - no shame here when it comes to paddling)! But then the annual pilgrimage to the Gualey and its Fest was brought up! Oh the stress!!!!!
However, as always the wife is cool! As of right now things are looking like I actually might make it to NY. However, the kid's schedule has not been finalized for that weekend so that is currently a wildcard! That said I'm a maybe! But 13 miles on my knees - yikes! I'll be looking forward for to the car ride back home! Hope to be there.....

Bring the Family! Yeah, they'd have to find something else to do Saturday while you run the Gorge, but there is LOTS to do in this VERY HISTORIC area...it was pivotal in both the French and Indian War, and Revolutionary War (every see "Last of the Mohicans"? It's fiction based on Reality of the area! Fort William Henry, Bloody Pond, Fort Ticonderoga, etc....). So, this could be an *educational* trip .

I'll put you on the list, and cross my fingers...and let me know if you need to borrow a comfy boat (I KNOW you have a lot of boats, but they seem to keep getting shorter ).