Don Williams mentioned the Robson Finkenmeister in the topic 'Looking for a GOOD C1 for Creeking'. He gave the dimensions of the boat (Length 9'2", Width 28.75", Volume 74 gal, Weight 42 lbs, cockpit 23 x 22") and they sound good to me! Imagine that - a boat designed as a C1, not converted, not modified. The real thing! Unfortunately, Don's comment was burried at the bottom of my topic. It is probably worth a look - if the boat can be found. Does ANYBODY OUT THERE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT the ROBSON FINKENMEISTER?
Someone finally has enough guts to build a C1 in plastic. Let's not ignore it, or we will continue to be ignored by the industry. Does it bother anyone that the industry produces dozens of kayaks and almost totally ignores C1ers? I guess by now it is simply taken for granted that we don't count from a marketing perspective.
Point is...I'd like to find out more about this Finkenmeister (sounds like a German boat)!
I found this boat on Robsons website (they are indeed aGerman company and their paddles have a good reputation in Europe) this spring, and tried pretty hard to get my hands on one to demo.
Unfortunately the Canadian distributor of Robson does not carry it in his line up, as he does not see enough of a market for it here and thus concentrates mainly on their playboats.
So I finally gave up.
Go to their website, where they have their importers listed. Maybe you are luckier in the US!
We are the north american distristributor for all the products here in the USA and Canada.
Yes, our offices are located in Canada but be take care of the entire US and Canada.
Please contact us for information regarding this product, and yes it is a special order product from our company in Europe as we have not rec'd support for such a product to date.
I'm not sure if this has been covered, but this website has a photo of the beast towards the bottom of the page: http://www.robsonpaddle.de/boat/kajak_e.html
And Bruce, if you decide to go long, I've got a Cascade that's spending far too much time in the garage and would love to see some good whitewater.....Ed
The problem I see with the finkenmeister is that it fills a fairly small market of paddlers. It sounds a little big and long for a great creeker, and doesn't seem to have anything going for it over the current crop of easily converted K1 creek boats. I've paddled a cascade, and an atom, and my current creeker/big river runner the Pyrannha H2, and neither of those boats comes close to the H2 for performance. I'm way more worried about pinning either of those boats as well. A new boat that needs to be compared to years old C1 designs doesn't seem to offer as much IMHO. Don't get me wrong, I think its great that a company is offering a dedicated C Boat, and I'd love to see more of them. However the fact remains that this boat may not offer anything that either a current convertible K1, or cheaply available used C1 (atom or Cascade, although the supplies of these are diminishing). I do applaud Robson's efforts, as well as their policy of selling bare hulls... Very C Boater friendly.
Why doesn't robson just kit one of their playboats as a C-1 rather than build a special C-1 boat? I have paddled various K-1 playboats set up as C-1, and my major problem is the set up, not the boat.
I just got a look at the Finkenmeister and it looks terrific for starters. 9'2" is short enough to handle all but the tightest of creeks. The boat has a relatively wide stance and has a wide cockpit to improve stability and enhance control.
In other words, it was designed from the ground up to be a C1 and it is more likely to perform better than a boat designed to be sat in (kayak).
Let me make some comments about some of the appreciated input I've received.......
The simple truth is 'if we fail to take interest in a manufacturer that has the boldness to market a C1, new C1s will not be designed. The alternative will be inherently less riverworthy, and less people will be interested in learning to handle an already difficult boat. This will contribute to the slow demise of our very special discipline. It's not a pretty picture. I've been in a C1 for 20 years, continue to paddle class 5 and have seen the big picture.
One can't compare new kayak designs to C1s that were designed 10 years ago. The comparison is unfair. Imagine what the current state of C1 design would be if we had experienced anything close to the creativity that has been infused into new kayak designs. By dismissing current C1 manufacturers we are relegating ourselves to inferior boats for our more difficult sport. That's not to say that we can't make a kayak work well as a C1, the point is, a properly designed C1 would likely be a significant improvement over the best kayak conversion.
Comments are welcome. I realize this is an uncomfortable topic. It does deserve some attention however.
....take a look at Robson's Charger Creek Boat for conversion. This company is going places and they are happy to hear feedback from paddler's. They are a very C-boat friendly company to boot. The CU-fly and Finkmeister are both testament to that.... 2 FRESH C-designs within a year... when is the last time any boat manufacturer even attempted that... Savage maybe.. and ironically it's Savage's old oven they are made in that was shipped from South Carolina to Germany and set up by David "pyscho" Simpson himself (C-boater).... remember something called Green Summer. Stay tuned and watch this company go places. I have a Twin-tip I will be setting up over the winter and I can't wait for spring.....
I saw the "Finkenmeister" this weekend at the Fest and its, well different! Since I didn't paddle it (just sat in it) I can't post on how it performs. However, the outfitting was very comfortable and the design approach has some very good points and features.
I emailed some photos of it to Adam to post when he gets a chance (no pressure Adam). You'll see Seth holding it with Stephen form German stand next to it. Stephen is over for 2 weeks and needs to sell the boat to make his trip home easier. Just a thought for those who are interested. Enjoy!
Paul C.
Cboats Moderator
Official TOG Member (Team Old Guy)!
Here is a translation of a reply I got from a German paddler about the Finkenmeister after posting a few questions on a German website:
'Hi Martin,
I paddled the Finkenmeister a few times in some easier eddies. The boat does not work for me. I felt more like paddling an open boat. I could not correct over the edge/stern, as I could not get it into the water. For the owner of the boat, who weighs 120 kg (270 lbs) it works much better. For me at 80kg (180 lbs) it has to much volume. Someone who weighs 60 kg (135 lbs) can barely keep it going straight.
It's a fast boat and is apparently a 'hole destroyer' (????).
I personally would prefer the Atom, although I sold it in the meantime and bought a Riot Superstar for riverrunning/creeking.
I hope this helps somewhat.
Greetings from across the creek:)
Steffen'
Sounds like its more something for the big boys among us.
martin
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau
I saw it at the Gauleyfest, and it is HUGE. Not so sure I'd want one, but it is interesting. It would be nice if there were companies putting the amount of effort into Cboats as they do Kboats, but the market isn't there I'm afraid. To me, part of C1ing has become finding and converting the evil Kboats, since nobody offers anything as a Cboat that is all that interesting to me or oriented towards the kind of paddling I do (Playboating and Creeking). Most C1s seem aimed at Riverrunning, which to me is done in my playboat to get to the playspots. I had no trouble in my Vibe on the Lower Gauley friday afternoon at 7-8k CFS, or on the Upper Gauley on Saturday at 1400 CFS (above meadow) and 4000+ CFS below the Meadow, so a riverrunner doesn't seem too necessary. Of course there are many styles of paddlers, and many styles of boats to suit them, but not in factory C1s unfortunately.
SYOTR
Tim
Here is the translation of another review I got from a German paddler (thanks Markus Hacker!) who actually owns a Finkenmeister:
"Hi Martin,
The Finkenmeister has a very high primary stability, (higher than a Cascade) and is much less susceptible to the current grabbing an edge or the deck than the Atom (I paddled both boats for several years). Compared to for instance a Necky Blunt (only paddled it as kayak) the Finkenmeister is faster and more stable. The only problem with the Finkenmeister is, as several paddlers weighing less than 80 kg/175 lbs, that the boat does not track and behaves like a cork on the water. This is not a problem for me as I weigh 100 kg/220 lbs and even afterrunning 3 m/10 ft drops or in really big water the boat accelerates and tracks despite the weight really well.
The designer Thomas Fink and the 2003 OC1 rodeo world champ Stefan Paetsch (they both weigh around 70kg/155 lbs) ran the Rissbachklamm (canyon) with it (this is a serious class V run in the German Alps, 1x 8 m/24ft and 2x 3 m/10 ft falls) and they absolutely love they way the boat boofs and dances on the water. They both say that the boat needs this amount of volume to really paddle the tough stuff.
It's an excellent boat for a bigger guy who wants a boat that really needs to be paddled actively.
Greetings Hacki"
martin
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau
I finally found a shop out here that can get me one for a reasonable shipping fee, so I ordered my Finkenmeister today. I'll post a review once I've had a chance to take it out a few times (the shop said it should be here in approx. 6 weeks). This is an expensive way to test a boat, but judging from the last review, it sounds like the creek boat I'm looking for.
