C-Forum

Ok Ladies and Gentleman, my first submission. Background first. Live in western CT. Just signed up a week ago, but have been looking at this site off and on over the last 6 months. Just had my 44th birthday. Started padling whitewater in 1968. Lived in Md. till early 70's. Designed and built all kinds of Kayaks and C-1's out of Glass and E-poxy with my family way back then. If you wanted to paddle, you made your own. No plastic then. Made paddles, sprayskirts,etc. to. First C-boat I got involved in was a design (Post Hahn days)with Dave Yost in my dads basement for Jamie McKewen(sp) for the 72 olympics. Used this new material called Kevlar.
Paddled a C-1 as a junior back then. When I raced, I got to beat the Lugbills and Hearns. Loved my C-boat. Ah well, life goes on. Went to college, got married had 2 boys and did not start paddling again till the late 80's. Wow, plastic boats, better than sliced bread. Problem is non of the c boats on the market were big enuff for my large duff. So I bought a Kyak. Well I have Paddled it up till now all over. Upper/lower Yough,Ocoee, Dead, Kennebec,250 beautiful miles of Grand Canyon, well you get the picture.
Problem is I still love the old single blade and I really need a new boat. Allways stayed away from the Oc-1's for many reasons(never could imagine being in whitewater without a skirt). Well now there are so many new Oc-1 designs on the market for whitewater, I want one. I haved looked at them all on the internet. Have read as many reviews as I can find on Esquif,Dagger, Mad River, Mohawk, Bell, Pyranha(holy molly), I now need some assistance.
I am a trditional river runner and don't mind doing class 2 stuff or class 4 stuff. Any good day on the water is better than ... I am not a Rodeo buff, but I do want to be able to get down Dragons Tooth on the Dearfield Dryway without working my tail off. Don't mind surfing waves and playing in smalll holes. Ihave a killer Yak roll, and used to have a bombproof C roll. Not real big on getting my headd wet anymore(Sinuses and ears). Here is the kicker, I am a wide body. 5'10", 265 lbs, short legs, big thighs, large chest. I am only going to buy ONE boat. This is where all of you folks come in. Any and all input would be a great HELP.
PS_ I was admiring all those of you that were at the WEST 2 weeks ago and am kicking myself for not test driving a few of your boats then. OK group, sink your teeth into this one.
And on that note, thanks in advance but, enuff for now.
CRod

For OC's, be sure to check out Millbrooks as well-they are LIGHT and FAST (being primarily slalom boat designs).

Are you SURE you just don't want a C1 with an enlarged cockpit ? Say, a Descender, Wide Ride, Blackwater, etc...?

Other than that, I'll leave OC recommendations up to the OC experts

Howdy

I'll provide you with the best suggestions I can....mainly concerning Esquif and Mad River canoes. I paddle an Esquif Detonator (10' long) myself, but am only 150lbs. For your weight I don't think this would be the right boat. However, the design is solid and it's a lot of fun up to class IV (me)/V (so they tell me) whitewater, and they make bigger variations. You could look at the Esquif Nitro (11.5' long), but might want to consider an Esquif Blast outfitted solo (13' long). Not sure which of these would be the best boat for you - you'd probably need to demo one or other and decide yourself.

The design features are consistant between the boats - what changes is predominantly the length. These boats have excellent secondary stability, although it doesn't have a lot of primary. They side surf fairly predictably and front surf well (in my limited experience of OC front surfing). I have run the Detonaro completely dry through Dragonstooth on the Deerfield (right in front of the Esquif owner who sold me the boat, which made me really happy!). They are designed for running the full gammut of whitewater, up to and including class V. Only notable disadvantage I note is that they're slow - they have a very wide bow and it doesn't exactly slice through the water. Of course, the longer the boat you get, the faster it will be.

You can get more info on Esquif from their website: www.esquif.com Dave Nickerson reps for the east coast and is based near Boston. You should contact him to try to arrange a demo. You can reach him at EsquifUSA@aol.com.

Mad River really only makes two whitewater boats - the Outrage (12feet) and the Outrage X (13feet): you'd probably want to check out the Outrage X, the bigger of the two. I also recently picked up a Rampage (13.3feet, predecessor to the Outrage X) hull recently and outfitted as a tandem for my wife and I. I noticed another hull up at Sacandaga Outdoor center. Considering that they haven't made this hull in about 4 years, I'm sure they'd give you a good price on it. I'm not a big fan of the Outrage (which I have paddled solo) as for me it is just a bit big and doesn't manuveur as readily as I want, but I know many people like the boat.

Another good place to go for demos is Zoar Outdoors - they stock Esquif and some others too. They had Dagger, and will probably be selling their demos off fairly cheaply since Dagger is now getting out of teh WWCanoe business (according to the rumours). I can't speak to the Dagger boats.

All these boats I've mentioned are Royalex models. Other manufacturers to check out include Bell Canoeworsk (the Prodigy) and Mohawk Canoes (various models). These are again Royalex. For composite models I concur with Adam - check out Millbrook Boats. Kaz has a range of excellent designs. Composite canoes are far lighter than royalex ones, but require more finesse than I normally possess (or maybe it's just because I paddle shallow New York rivers most of the time ) and won't be as suitable for harder runs. There should be links to all these manufacturers from this website, but if any are missing drop me a line through the board and I will provide them for you.

Enjoy the search!

Matt

I'm 190 lbs. and I like the smaller Outrage because it's quick and nimble so I think you will like the Outrage X.
The Esquif Nitro and Detonator seem slow and dry but I havn't paddled them enough to give a fair evaluation.
A couple of freinds of mine who are big guys swear by the Dagger Caption (14').
Zoar Outdoor usualy has Demo days at the Gap in the spring and they will let you rent boats anytime. They should have the Outrages and the Esquif boats at least, possibly the Dagger as well.

Have fun,
Tommy

I'm 6' 1" and 220, and I don't think that you would have to go over 12 feet long in any hull. Maybe even an 11 footer would do. If you can, take a look at Mohawk's Probes and Vipers as well.
Welcome to the Madhouse!!
Ric Taylor

If you decide to go big, check out the Pirhana Jon is selling:
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=2158

I picked up the Edge from him, and can tell you he takes GREAT care of his boats. He can most likely tell you about other boats as well in that range.

I currently weigh in at around 230 (6'4" tall) or so and paddle a Nitro. It handles well, I was probably around 245 in the spring, I haven't noticed much of a difference in how the boat handles having shed some of the weight. I've paddled an Ocoee once, I thought it was a dream boat for paddling, and I thought it it was a proportionate 'small' boat considering my size. I think you'd want to stay away from the Bell Prodigy, it's somewhat similar to the Ocoee but has about 2" less depth compared to the Ocoee.

The problem is that Ocoees are nearly impossible to come by.

mike.

Hey Rod- we must be neighbors. I live in NW Connecticut, on the banks of the Farmington River. If you want to try out my boats that may fit you, I have:
- A Dagger Cascade (C1) that is available as a loaner, as it only gets wet once or twice a year.
- A Millbrook Prowler (OC 1 or 2). This is a 15' boat that handles like a much smaller boat. If the design/handling feels good Kaz makes 13' boats that you will like even better.

You will also fit my Whitesell Pyranha and Mad River Howler (both OCs). The Howler, like the Prowler, handles like a boat smaller than its 15' length.

Unfortunately, I do not have any of the smaller OC boats that play well. I do have a couple of Slashers (C1), but it sounds like you may not fit into them.

Contact me if interested.

Jim