C-Forum

Hey all, there have been small comments of this in other threads, I thought I'd dedicate a thread to this to see if there's a little bit more information specifically to answer a couple questions I have:

1. What new designs/materials are on the market (Someone mentioned Esquiff will come out w/ some pretty neat stuff - any comments?)

2. What's the likelihood of reviving the Dagger Ocoee? I really liked paddling that boat, and so does everyone else that currently owns one. Is anyone else interested in a new Ocoee as well, or is everyone ready for new designs?

thanks in advance!

--mike

Mike, I'll try to answer your questions as good as I can:

1) The newest designs on the market are currently the Esquif Zoom, Pyranha Prelude and Bell Prodigy / Nexus. All of those are, with the exception of the Prelude, made of Royalex. Don't go for a composite boat, at least not if you intend to paddle the Gull at medium to low levels, as it will be in pieces in no time otherwise.
I heard that rumour about Esquif working on a new material as well, my guess is that it's probaly a version of polyethylene, maybe with a foam core for added stiffness. My Old Town tripping boat is made of crosslinked PE with a foam core, and I find it, although a little heavier than royalex, way more solid. I think Old Towns patent for this is expiring soon, if it hasn't already.

2) I think the odds that someone will revive the Ocoee, at least in Royalex, are pretty slim. I have so far not seen any boat being resurected by another manufacturer, once it has been discontinued, and as far as Mike Yee told me, Dagger gave up on the open boat market for good, as their new owner sees not enough money to be made in there. There is a chance that maybe someone will start making the boat in composite, as this has happened before, i.e. Millbrook builds a few ex Mad River boats and, if I am not mistaken, the Rival.
Right now I think, if you can't find an Ocoee, consider looking into a Mohawk Viper 11 or 12, they have been designed like the Ocoee by the late Frankie Hubbard and handle, as far as I know, very similarly. Don't know about their quality though, and they are really hard to come by up here in Canada.
As far as new designs are concerned, bring em on! What about making a 12-13 ft OC2 in polyethylene, along the lines of the Prelude?? That would get me excited!

And get yourself a drysuit, there is still a lot of paddling to be done this year before the rivers freeze over!

martin

Here's what I know.
ESQUIF
I talked to the Esquif rep at Gauley Fest and got some good info. He looked suprised when I asked him about the new material after some thought he decided to give me a look. Cool stuff, its a woven material, that was all the detail he would devulge about the constrction, the sample was light and looked extremely durable. It was tough to scratch it even with a cinderblock and wailing it with a hammer. I dont know how it will react to rocks (as in; slide off easily like Royalex or stick to them like aluminum). They are looking to release boats made of this material winter/spring. He told me that the Zoom was going to be one of the first releases in this new material weighing in as a featherweight at 19lbs. As for new boats they are working on a shorter version of the Zoom and possibly a longer version as well (this may be close to a replacement for an Ocoee). Also they are working on a tandem boat to hopefully fill the void left by the loss of the Dagger Caption. Esquif seem pretty dedicated to research and development in open boating which is very exciting to me, especially in a time where no one else is giving it much thought. Kudos to them. In looking for your next open boat please give these boats a try. You'd be supporting a company that is one of the few in a small and getting smaller source of innovation and new products in the OC world. (Shameless unscolicited plug...)

OCOEE
A big Dagger dealer down here told me after talking to Dagger that not only would they stop prducing the Ocoee but the would be destroying the molds as well . If anyone has any insight as to the logic on this, please fill me in.

Wow, 19 lbs for an open boat!! This must be a miracle material! I hope it is as durable as it sounds to be (wailing on it with a hammer without breaking it sounds pretty good to me!).
I hope their new tandem they are working on has some of the design features of the Zoom (the handling of their Nitro Detonator / Blast line is not really my cup of tea) in something more durable than royalex, hopefully at leasrt as durable as polyethylene, I'd definitely consider buying a boat like that! I think Esquif are definitely a company to watch!

Martin

I've been making 19 lbs open canoes for years. They are just too light to be durable. IMO
JKaz

About those 19 lb OC's, what exactly are we talkingabout here, bare hull, hull with trim or fullu outtiied and ready to paddle? The latter is the weight that really matters IMO, the others are only good for comparison reasons of bare hulls.

martin

I don't know if the weight was for a trimed boat or not. I belive it was, he was comparing it to the 39lbs that the current Zoom weighs in at.