C-Forum

Open Canoe Slalom Racers,

I have posted this ballot here as the Forum on the ACA Open Canoe Slalom Committee site is currently down and we need to discuss these issues before the vote is taken. Visit the ACA site and select events and then open canoe slalom to get to the current rules etc. For those of you who haven't visited this site, its an awesome one both for open boaters and those on the dark(Decked) side. Me, I go both ways. To the forum regulars, your input is most appreciated to. Maybe we'll get you to try out the Nationals some year when it comes to your town.
My current leanings are 1. Yes they're the only game in town. 2. No Its too controversial at this time, Many for/Many against keep it the same until that situation changes. 3. No I think we've got enough West representation right now although Alan is an excellant person and will serve in the future. 4. Yes Its been my pet project to simplify this scoring nightmare. 5. Yes although my New England counterparts have been quick to point out that the Southern crew will have a big advantage if its held early in the spring. We can't paddle in Ice too easily. But it would open up lots of great sites to contest it at.

Thanks
Pat
New England Open Canoe Slalom Committee Representative

To: The Open Canoe Slalom Voting Committee

From: Bob & Jill Stecker, co-chairs 1 November 2003

***** OFFICIAL BALLOT *****
Committee Members: this is the last item of business from your present co-chairs. Jill and I take this opportunity to thank all of you for working with us over the past 5 years. Our term of office expires December 31, 2003.

You will note that the first item on the ballot is your vote of approval for the new co-chairs. This vote will be conducted by us---our current 14-member voting committee---not by the affiliate membership as was done in 2001. We were informed by the ACA that this voting procedure is consistent with other ACA National Activity Committees and recommended we follow it.

Due date for your vote is 15 November 2003.

Please respond immediately and let us know that you have received this ballot. We need to be assured that everyone has the ballot in hand. (The 2 week deadline follows the ACA recommendation for e-mail voting).

Item 1. The new Open Canoe Slalom chair position. Fortunately we have two well qualified people who are willing to act as co-chairs. Are you in favor of having Connie Miner and Sam Montague function as Open Canoe Slalom co-chairs for the next two years?

YES NO

Item 2. Gate penalties. Are you in favor of changing our present penalty for touching a gate from the 10-second penalty to a 5-second penalty?

YES NO

Item 3. Member-at-large. Are you in favor of electing Alan Burgmuller as member-at-large?

YES NO

Item 4. Calculating the Combined Event. Are you in favor of using the proposed percentage method for calculating the Combined Race Event (as described by Pat Cleary) at the 2004 Nationals in order to further evaluate this method prior to adoption?

YES NO

Item 5. Time period for the Nationals. Our current rules state…”Article VIII, 11…The Open Canoe Nationals should take place between June 20 and August 20.” Are you in favor of replacing this rule with the following?

“Because of seasonal differences in river flows at potential race sites across the country, the Open Canoe Slalom Nationals may take place at times other than the mid-summer period.”

YES NO

I thought I'd let you know a little more specifics about the scoring formula for combined, a two part race involving a short Downriver race and then the better of two slalom runs. The previous formula uses standard deviation to form a range after throwing out Downriver times that are over 120% of the winning time and Slalom times that are over 200% of the winning time. This is doen for each event and then added together. We have demonstrated that in constucting this range, a person who is just within the maximum times alllowed can affect the range generated and change the scoring. IE Different people would win if his score was eliminated. This seems inherently unfair to me. My proposal, which has been trial run for two years at the Kenduskeag slalom in Bangor Maine with no problems simply uses % of winning time in each event. It weights them evenly with a perfect score being 200.00 for someone who wins both events and higher totals for other results. This way as in regular scoring for these events, the low score wins. And its way simpler to figure out than the current rules.
My 2 cents for now
Pat

Hey Pat! Thanks to you and everyone involved for working on the scoring proposals for combined. It sure is confusing for no apperent reason... to me at least.

As for opening up the race dates I will make a few comments here since I opened that can of worms.

I believe doing this will open race venues not only in the Southeast but in Colorado and the west, as well as some primo sites out in the Northeast. I beleive limiting ourselves to June-Aug just keeps it on dam-controlled runs, when there is a lot of good rivers running between the end of April and beginning of May. It's always nice to go somewhere and be able to catch a couple of runs that aren't the race site. If I'm traveling 1000+ miles to go to a race chances are I'm going to do some boatin' as well.

What do others think about this? Thanks,
Craig

... forgot. On the 5 vs. 10 vote.

If decked boats are 2 second penalties and they can slide under gate poles should OC's have the poles raised 24"... or should decked boats recieve a penalty that fit's "our" criteria..? say a minute penalty?

FYI. The last time this was voted for it split 50/50. I sent out emails and will call everyone in my area about these items for their vote's. Do you think all the other rep's will do something similar or will they just vote how they personally feel on the issues?

Craig - The issue of changed penalties was brought up at our final race for the season and well thought out arguments for both sides were given. Alot of people feel strongly about being rewarded for technical expertise (giving 10 to those who touch), others felt the reduced penalty would make for more aggressive and tighter racing. Some felt it would encourage the intentional hitting of gates to gain an advantage in time and that would be to the detriment of the sport. While I personally am in favor of going to the 5 second penalty, I represent the racers of New England and the current split in their opinions tells me we are not ready for this change yet or maybe ever. Time will tell. BTW I try to get my constituents opinions in any way I can. This forum for example. E-mail when I have their addresses (although I try to keep that to a minimum. And generally by discussing the issues at races and on fun paddles with those who have an interest. Hit the forums of your local clubs as well. Good luck being a politician. Life sucks and then you paddle and forget.
Pat

I have yet to do an "official" slalom, so take my votes with several grains of sand...

1) If you like 'em-cochairs! (YES)
2) NO-I like 10 sec or more penalties-I feel this places more emphasis on technique and less on strength....
3) Yes (see disclaimer!)
4) YES-sounds good!
5) YES-as long at it alternates

yo pat,
I think 5 second penalties would be fun. we should take a vote on this or something. i just had to run a big drop on the middlebury backwards the other day, i say bring back reverse gates while we're at it. and mandatory chugging at the start line! oh and spoilers on boats would be cool too, would that keep my bow down and help me sneak the gates?

im glad you're paddling c-1 these days pat. i still want to try out that superglide, but i keep thinking i will like it more than my boat and wont want to paddle mine anymore. i hear there was also some talk at farmington about changing the scoring for closed boats too. only one run counting -- the old rules. things are shaking up around here. i like it.

what's next, prize money in the NESS series???
later
Alden

(just thought i'd put that in)

oh and what are some spots people are thinking for holding races in the spring? i think it's a good idea, although it may conflict with the NESS races.

Alden,
I would like to thank you and Middlebury College for considering prize sponsership of the NESS series. Unfortunately, monopoly money may not encourage participation. Still, the awarding of monopoly money and keeping an earnings tab for the series is more interesting than points is now. Yeah on going to the best of the two runs but it will be revisited. Renee presented a poll of NESS decked boat racers taken on Race Day 1 and that resulted in a vote by race directors present to try it. Then the screaming started. Connie garnered a counterpoll and Casey's parents became very vocal, along with other racers. Seems some races, the Housy and Fiddlehead for ex. are used for Calvin Klein rankings and that means having to score it twice. Not my bailiwick, I only vote on the "National" issues. As you get older you generally get more conservative. Its nice to hear your liberal "Bring change on" rantings though. Craig's idea on the timing of "Nationals" that gives those who travel more selction of other paddling than a dam release is a good point for expanding the dates of holding "Nationals". Thanks for your 2 cents Alden. Now lets see you in an open boat more. And with less twitchin.
Pat

Alden,
That's great that Middlebury College wants to become a NESS sponsor!! You must have done a great job talking to them about slalom racing. That's exactly what we need for the future(your future) of racing.
Thanks again.
JKaz

Didn't take much, just walk into the president's office and grab the checkbook when the secretary was in the john. I made it payable to "alden bird" but I'll get it to you guys real soon.
ABB

Pat:

As a slalom rookie I think that the 10 point (seconds) rule really sucks. Especially when guys like Alden get to slip under the gates.

However, because of it I have had to become a much better paddler.

Summary- if the intent is to reward boat control (finesse), keep it in. I have come around to appreciating it.

Jim Smith

PS- I just picked up an old Fanatic this weekend, so that I, too, can take the "easy" route. I will be chasing you guys next year.

Jim
Bring it on. I need some competition to stoke the old fire back up. And I'm just learning all the fun I can have in my superglide. You will have a ball. You and Patrick should get an old c2 and give klaus and famille something to think about.
Pat

Yes on Sam and Connie.

I vote that the 10 second penalty stays. I can see many situations where the fastest method through an upstream is to clobber the gate, especially if you're a relative novice. That brings in the issue of following someone who's leaving gates a'swingin everywhere. Too messy, and it makes it necessary to allow extra-extra time between starts. If the gate is that difficult to run without the penalty, the gates can be hung high so that open boats can sneek too. I've done it at my race occassionally.

Item 3: Yes

Item 4: Yes

Item 5: Yes, but the Nats should be run in fairly good weather. I'm not good at suffering anymore.

Bob
thanks for your response to the issues and to Jim too for his novice (he's no novice anymore. All the Medium Regulars wonder how he got so good so fast) insight. I'm planning on voting to retain the 10 second penalty at this time, for your reasons and the fact that this is currently a hot button issue here in New England. As to issue 5, opening up the calendar, the main reasons for this were given by Gordon and Craig. First, many excellent venues are not dam controlled and tend to be dry in the summer. And second, many people travel a great ways to go to Nationals and wish to paddle on other streams in the area. If its held in the summer at a dam release with limited possiblilties of paddling other streams in the area, this puts a damper on the long vacations. The main area in question is the south and a Nationals held there in March for example would be reasonable weather there and alot of additional paddling would be opened up for those who want to paddle off the race site. Further more, if I can get it to Snow in Tennessee in April (I did at the 2000 Olympic trials-those Abenaki chants really do work!) you might not show and Ray will be very happy.
Pat
My current positions
1yea 2nea 3 nea 4yea 5yea and an additional item was posted late 6 reappointment of Dan from WV as at large rep yea.