Plastic squirt boat???

[C1dawg]

I have a XXX that is a bit two narrow and has no stability since I'm now about 175 pounds, so it's not working out. I'm looking for plastic because the rivers here (Montana) will eat a glass boat. Is there any such thing as a plastic boat that would be good for me? I have a Forplay c1 but it's too big to squirt.

Thanks in advance,
Dennis

[beads]

I have a massive mad dog, I know, ,I know not a very good boat, but for the price $400 CND OBO It might work well for you, it is smaller than the foreplay and you could probably have some fun with it, but really I'm just trying to get rid of htis boat becuase I am moving to New Zealand and need all the money I can get my hands on.

Beads (a man with a boat and no $)

[PAC]

Dennis
What are you looking to do with the xxx?
I too looked, for sometime, for a plastic squirt boat but ended up with the xxx and more recently a Viper (glass).
The only plastic “squirt” boat I could find info on was an Enigma (online) but I could not find one here in the States. I later I was told that the Enigma was more of an ocean boat and not a very good true “squirt” boat. But again I never found one to check out.
Currently I too have a xxx (I picked up for that same reason it sounds like you did) and I’m in your weight range (plus a pound, or two, or three). I use it, along with a ZWO, as my play boats on II-IV rivers, at lower to middle levels (summer), and find them to be a lot of fun.
If you are looking to get the xxx to mystery – well it won’t – too much volume. Particularly in the cockpit area and it’s not quite long enough.
But if you want to do ends, squirts, bow stalls, splats, etc. it will. You just have to have spend some time (ok a lot of it) dialing into the design. You also get to work on your roll (aka flipping).
One of the things I did with my xxx was smash it in both the bow and stern areas. This had two positive outcomes - it took volume out of the boat (front and back) and it add rocker. The xxx now bow stalls on demand and I can cartwheel and squirt with ease. I’m still working on getting it to do an extended stall in a stern squirt but that is a function of the paddler’s skills, not the boat.
If you do find plastic squirt boat – let me know – I’d love to hear about it and check it out.
In the mean time if you want photos of my xxx let me know (PM me) and I’ll send them to your email address.
Good luck.
Paul C.

[Kevin]

Squish your old platic boats. Heat it up and run it over with your vehicle. take out all the volume. (not like you need the footroom).

[the great gonzo]

Does this also work with a bigger boat? (I am thinking of my Atom here )...
Do you have to remove the foam pillars to do that? How much do you heat it up?

martin

[James]

the challenge is that most plastic kayak conversions still have way too much volume around the cockpit, as was already mentioned for the XXX. if you want to stall and throw ends with ease, squishing will work. But I don`t see how you could get downtime with one of these old boats.

[msims]

Martin,

Why bother with the atom when you already have the Finkenmeister that is capbable of doing mystery moves on the Ottawa! (you gotta tell THAT one)

I recall that rapid mag had an article/issue dedicated to removing volume out of boats. It was specific to getting rid of the foot-space at the front of the boat. I think it was about 1-1.5 yrs ago.

[Martyn]

Mike -

There was enough water this weekend that I was doing mystery moves in my Skeeter!

I think squishing the Atom would be a waste. I don't know if anyone has played around with something like a Necky Jib. I think it was a kids kayak from about 5 years ago and it seemed to have really low volume. Most people grew out of them as they could no longer get their legs in, but hey, thats not a problem in a C-boat!

Martyn

[pac as a guest]

I think KNeal smashed his Atom but only on in the stern area. I think he liked the outcome! KNeal???
Certain boats lend themselves to squashing more than others. Boats like the xxx, AMP, ZWO, etc. are easy to step on while smashing a Cascade would be a waste of time do to the hull's design (IMO).
You have to take into account the hull design (flat plaining usually works better) and plastic (crosslink is a bugger to smash).
As for heating them up and running them over (LOL) I'm not sure as to that train of thought - I saw that in "We design 'm" but....
For squashing I usually get with a friend of mine (Dr. Heatgun), remove the pillars and then slow work the boat to where we want it to be usually by standing on it or applying weight to a particular area. Make sure to apply even heat over boat sides and take your time. I aslo suggest you have lots of adult beverges on hand since it will take some time, along with a plan on what you want the boat to look like.
Good luck on Atom smash'n - smashing can be rewarding or a pain!

.

[sbroam]

I don't know if you could smash an Atom enough, the cockpit is still too big. But a Slasher... I took an old Slasher that had already had the stern crushed (great mod, by the way) and tried it on the bow - first by removing the wall, then glueing some blocks in to hold the deck down. One problem is that the hull pulls *up* and the deck pulls *down* - you also end up with a pretty floppy configuration. However... it is a lot easier to get the bow down... Biiiiiiig sloooooow cartwheels.

In stage 2, I cut the bow wall down and glued it in - same problem with the hull going *up*, though a little less floppy.

Stage 3 was to cut the ends off - I cut about a foot off of the stern and tried welding it. It looks a bit like a badly melted candle and is water tight only until it hits a rock (Pretty brittle). Did the same to the bow and it looks worse. With it shorter, the boat is stiffer and the distortion between top and bottom seems less extreme.

Now, you can just lean forwards or backwards to sink it... Ends swap real fast and it may have sinkability... Not exactly fast, either. The stability wasn't terrible - better than the Groove was for me, but then again I was probably 60 pounds over the ideal weight for the cut I tried!

I think someday I'll trim the ends past the awful welds and use silicone and bolts to close up the ends. Can't hurt at this point! I'm going to wait until it is warm before I do that, though, it has gotten so cold down here that some folks are wearing paddling jackets

[NZMatt]

The Perception Jib was the plastic kids boat that doubled as a squirt boat for larger folks who could actually fit into it, which of course isn't as much an issue as a C1. There are still a good number around if you want to try to find one.

I believe there was a company called Eurokayaks (or something like that) that made a boat called an Axis (? I might have that name totally wrong). I recall seeing one from back when I was a newbie kayaker ~5years back. I asked what it was and someone told me it was designed as a plastic squirt boat. I thought it looked kind of funky at the time, but I can't say I knew much back then (or now ). This is all fuzzy memories, but it might be worth doing a web search for....I don't have any other info.

Good luck!

[KNeal]

Thanks to PAC, I think I have a new name for my Atom--the "Atom Smasher" ! Or do I get referred to as the atom smasher for squashing my stern deck ?

To answer Martin's (with an"i") question about smashing the deck of an Atom, I have done that to mine in order to make it more squirty. I took my time and thought out my plans of what I wanted to see and how to go about it. The results turned out nicely, though I unexpectedly ended up with a more up-curved stern at the tail (not necessarily a bad outcome). I do want to say that I realized several things that resulted in modifying the shape of a plastic boat.

1). Scott B. already mentioned the biggest effect: when you push the deck down, the hull will come up. With Scott's Slasher, he got a dimpled, or pulled in, hull on the bottom. What I got was the tail curling up higher without changing the shape of the bottom of the hull.

2). The result of my stern squashing gave me a more stable stern squirt after initiation, but I want to point out that the squashing DID NOT make initiating the squirt any easier. I can stall the squirt longer and make easier reverse squirts coming out of the eddies (what slalom racers call an "indirect"?). PAC took a pic of me doing one on the Lower Yough. The Atom front surfs waves with foam piles nicely, front blasts ledge holes pretty well, and handles no differently than before my modification.

Do I like the changes? Yes. Would I do it again with an Atom? Well, I'm trying to acquire a glass Viper squirt boat, so my response is, "go squirt glass and save your plastic for monkey moves" .

PAC has smashed volume out of his XXX and seems to have gotten some decent results from it (as if there was any volume in the ends to squash out in the first place ). Scott B. has made his Slasher much more squirty and quite controllable at the same time. For a c-1 squirt boat, you do need more width than many kyacks give, but then again, if you're desperate enough, you can adapt to anything .

Wow! I certainly got long winded on that one. Good luck, C1dawg. You may be able to take more volume out of your Forplay, but remember that you will change the shape of the hull to some degree. Go glass and enjoy the river .

KNeal

[Craig Smerda]

...easy squirting and mystery moves are simple with any c1... pull the skirt.. fill er up with h20, and hang on man! Not recommended for the faint of heart.

(I will sometimes take the front or rear bag out of my OC's to practice vertical moves in flat water... that's the only way you can do it with all that volume)

[NZMatt]

I''ll have to try doing that some more Craig - I did it once unintentionally. I was teaching a canoeing class in a pool and was demonstrating finding the stability point. I flipped and rolled, but I forgot I only had my bow floatation in the boat. Ever so slowly after the roll the stern sank lower and lower until I was vertical. Quite amusing for the class and for me I'd nearly forgotten about it until your post....it was kinda fun

[Martyn]

You can get the same effect Craig and NZMatt talk about by using old bags in your OC1 in big trashy holes. Eventually, the bags give out and its really amusing for your friends ....