C-Forum

Hi there,
I am an intermediate paddler looking to move into a solo boat. I am about 5'5", so I'm not the biggest paddler in the world. I've been looking into the Esquif Detonator as a good boat. Does anyone have any thoughts on the Detonator (ie plastic, performance, etc.)- or any other thoughts on good solo canoes. Any info would be great. Thanks,
Anna

Anna,

I have tried the Detonator and it was not the boat for me. I found it too sluggish and it felt heavy. It is dry though. I am also not too sure about the material, I see a lot of esquif boats that show a lot of wear on their chines.
It has good primary and reasonable secondary stability.
I personally prefer the Pyranha Prelude, it is quicker, more maneuvrable, feels lighter and since it is made of polyethylene, virtually indestructible. The biggest drawback is that it has no primary stabilty to speak of, which many people do not appreciate, but it has tons of secondary stability, which in my opinion is way more important in a whitewater boat.
My suggestion would be to try them both and then choose depending on your personal preference.

martin

Martin -

I've been looking around for prelude pricing, but I've so far been unsuccessful in finding any information.

How does the price of the prelude compare to other new boats (ABS) on the market?

of course the biggest problem right now with the prelude it's lack of existance on the used market... from what I've heard, those who have 'em won't be getting rid of them anytime soon!

-allan

Allan,

I don't know the price of the Prelude in the US, here in Canada they are Can$ 2100.00, so it is more expensive than an ABS boat, however this price is fully outfitted with air bags, saddle, bulkhead footbraces and so on, all you have to do is glue the outfitting in place where you want it, so in the end the price is similar to an ABS boat with full Mike Yee outfitting.

Here in Canada they are disributed by Scott Canoe, don't know about the US though.

Yes, they are virtually impossible to find used, as they have only been on the market for a year or so and everybody else I know who owns one is very happy with it. I was lucky to be able to purchase the demo boat Scott Canoe had.

Maybe you can track down the distributor in the US, they might be willing to sell their demo boat.

martin

PS:Here is the link to a Prelude review that was published in 2002 in Rapid Magazine.


http://www.rapidmagazineinc.com/onlinei ... /v4i4/38/0

Hi Anna,
I'm 5'6" and paddle a Dagger Phantom. I love the boat, but it's one of those boats that is hit or miss. Some people really like it while others hate it. The Phantom is no longer being made and finding a used one is tough.
I've spent enough time in a Detonator to have an opinion… I fond the boat to feel really stable - both primary and secondary. The boat is also dry, and surfs really well. The downside is that the boat feels sluggish compared to my Phantom (which feels pretty snappy). I'm not entirely sure if the boat is actually slow, or just feels slow. I suspect a bit of both. Also, I think that the solid primary stability ends up giving the boat a sluggish feel.
I've been in a Prelude, but haven't paddled it enough to give an opinion. The folks I know who have the Prelude sure do like it. One thing to keep in mind… Since the boat is polyethylene, I don't think you can outfit with thighstraps (or at least it will be a lot more work).
Another boat you may want to consider it the Esquif Zoom.
Good luck in your search.

I've paddled the Zoom and the Prelude, never been in the Detonator. I'm 5'6'', and the bulkhead type rigging in the Zoom and the Prelude did not work for me. I could never get the rigging to hold me in for a roll. Aside from that, the performance was not what I've been getting from my c-1s.

Why not consider a nice proven c-1 boat? Lots of good boats out there. I've paddled a Pyrhanna 220 that was good, the XXX is a good boat for the right size person, and I wouldn't trade my Forplay for a truckload of Detonator/Zoom/Prelude type boats..... Not badmouthing those boats, just stuck on c-1 type perfomance.

Good luck,
Dennis

Well, There are those out there who just like to paddle an open boat, at least once in a while . And since Anna specifically asked for info on the Detonator and other open boats, I assume that, at least at this point, she is not interested in C1's.

The bulkhead outfitting works extremely well for keeping you in once it's properly fitted to the paddler and slightly modified. I will modify my Prelude in the next few weeks to keep me in more securely, I will raise the back fo the saddle (stock it is a little too low, in my opinion) by a few inches. This should prevent me from getting sucked out while getting soundly thrashed in holes ...
I was initially not too sure about the bulkhead outfitting, but in the meantime i prefer it over thighstraps, as exit and entry is much faster, and it displaces a lot of water. I agree that it would be difficult to install thighstraps into a Prelude, but not impossible.

Performance wise the Zoom as well as the Prelude are excellent boats, but they are more targeted towards river-running and creeking and not for park-and-play, which, judging by the boats you mention (XXX, Forplay), is what you seem to be mainly interested in, so tohe performance of a CU-Fly, Spanish Fly or Aftershock may be the more you cup of tea.

I personally prefer the Prelude for open boating not only because of it's performance, but also because of the material. PE is definitely a better choice for running shallow and rocky rivers than ABS.

martin

The price matter is curious.
In Italy the Prelude cost almost half of a royalex boat like esquif, dagger or mohawk

Anyway, I got one and I like it.

I have to agree with Martin about the Prelude. I think for a smaller paddler it is one of the better boats out there (or for a larger paddler for that matter ...)

For someone about 5'5", I would also take a look at the Bell boat. (I think its called the Prodigy) Again, its new on the market. It's a Bob Foote boat so a fairly different design philosophy from the Prelude or the Detonator. It is a faster boat than either of those two. It probably won't surf as well, but will hold its speed better. There is a rumour that the Prodigy has been redesigned for this year as heavier paddlers found it quite wet. I haven't paddled the Detonator much. It surfs extremely well. It feels a bit slow but I guess it depends on what you are doing. If I was paddling mostly big rivers, I would certainly look at a Detonator as it feels really solid in bigger stuff. One thing you might want to remember about the Prelude is that it is a heavier boat than a comparable Royalex boat.

The Esquif Royalex does wear, in part because of the har-chines of their designs. I have a Blast, and I find I have to be a bit more gentle with it than I would with an ABS boat, but I suspect I would feel that way about any Royalex boat.

Good luck in your boat hunt.

Martyn

Hi Anna

I have a Detonator and have been paddling it for the past 3 years. It was the first open boat I owned. It really works well for all different levels of paddler (beginner - expert) I think. I'm 155lbs, 5'10" and my boat was a demo boat before I bought it. I've beat it pretty hard (I think) but it's holding together OK. There is a lot of wear on the chines and I've minorly cracked the outer layer of the royalex, but to fix that I've applied skid plates (I actually used the wrong resin and they turned out too brittle, not flexible enough, so I've now cracked them, but that's learning for you).

I don't find the primary stability on the boat aprticularly, good, but the secondary is rock solid. Many beginners (and I've thrown a few into it) find it unstable because of the lack of primary stabilty (my wife hates that feeling and much prefers her Dagger Phantom). The Detonator is slow - there's no question about it having paddled the Prelude and the Phantom, it's much slower than either of them. It is a very dry boat, however, and the bow resurfaces very nicely after running a drop. It's a bit of a pain when full of water, but that's not unusual.

I've used this boat for playboating a little, but mainly for river running (including big water rivers) and a little creeking. It's great as a creeker and does really well in the big water too. For rolling, it can be a bit tough I think - I do miss them from time to time and have less trouble in other boats, but that may be the technique I use or something. Other people seem to find it rolls easily.

The Detonator is very forgiving as the double chine structure acts like a very soft rounded chine and doesn't catch the current if you lean the wrong way as much as a hard chined boat (like the Prelude or Ocoee .....or the Air) would.

I've also demoed the Prelude and really like that. For what I'm now looking for in a boat (which has changed as I've learnt and my technique has developed - I'm now looking for hard chines and more speed) it's a better match for me than my Detonator. I've been wanting to try the Zoom, but haven't had the chance yet.

If you're in upstate NY, I'd be happy to let you try the boat out.


NZMatt

Hi Anna I have been paddling the Detonator for about a year. I find it great fun, very nimble and guick in catching eddies, surfs and is quite stable. Run some big water and creeks found it to be great on both as it is easy to move around quickly. My other OC1 is a MR Outrage - very, very different. I enjoy them both but when into playful and quick I go for the Detonator.

Yes I believe it may be slower than the Phantom. It is a heavier boat. It has a very sturdy lay up - It is a solid boat - the Phantom is a light weight. The Detonator has a true flat bottom but it's hull shape is unigue - very different than the Phantom - they are very different boats - yes they are both small but the Esquif Zoom is more the size of the Phantom. Detonator is 10feet.

I had a bulk head outfitting in the Detonator - as that is what it came with but I have since installed Mike Yee straps and changed the size and shape of the bulk head with the help of a saw and sander down to a small pedestal. Once I changed the outfitting the boat handled great.

I would strongle recommed the Detonator it is delightfully fun to paddle. Attaining will challenge your water reading and paddling skills though.

Hope that helps - I am 5'6" and as a woman paddler I think this boat definately improved my OC1 confidence.
Dale

BTW - I just realized that I might be slightly biased in describing the Detonator as lacking primary stability. I have a 9.75" saddel in mine (hey it's what it came with and it's certainly comfy ), which may account for that lack of primary stability I was talking about. It's still rock-solid on secondary though.

Hey Dale - I think I met you one time at the put in to the Lehigh (can't remember what I was paddling that day, but I recall meeting a woman with a Detonator who talked about removing the bulkhead outfitting and installing straps. I recall admiring the setup).