C-Forum

WOW! I have been reading all the posts (5 pages) reguarding the Robson Finkenmeister. Thought it was time to start a Topic page. I have been actively investigating a wwC-boat for some time now and had almost resigned myself to an to an OC-1. After reading all the envios fuss stirred up over Martin,s purchase, I am hoping that a decked boat (spelled NEW Fink) may be just what I have been waiting for. I had given up C-boating many yaers ago due to a lack of palstic models made that a big guy can get into.
Hence I have some more questions both for Martin and the group on this boat.
!.For Martin- You have made a few references about the size of a paddler that this boat seems to fit.On one of your (9/22/03) e-mails you mention a 270(120kg)lb German named Stefan paddles one. Then on 9/30/03 another German at 220lbs. On 11/11/03 at the Gull you recommend it for Larger guys. On 11/12/03 you mentioneed multi-day tripping. So here is my biggest queston:
Can a man 5-11, 29" inseam, big thighs, size 12 feet, 40" waist and 260lbs get into this boat and comfortably run it down rivers(up to Cl. V), IYO?
2. For Martin and the rest of the gang,(remember that boat design is secondary to being able to sit in it comfortably for me)Martin talks about the Fink having a bigger cockpit and deeper tahn an Atom. Is an Atom bigger than a Cascade?
I tried a Cascade many yrs. ago but had truoble with my feet and thighs, while sitting on top of the rim. I need a higher pedestal.
Needless to say SIZE MATTERS! I have looked at all the OC-1's on the market and don,t like the material selections. They do have more depth for somene like me to build up the pedestal, but I just can't get it into my head to not have a deck on it. I don't buy boats every other season. Don't want to design and build a BIG BOY's C-1 either. Gave up that 25 years ago.
I'll finish this by saying that it is time for a new boat and the next one will allow me to use all the nice single bladed paddles I put away long ago. P.s.- I need to sit inanything that comes up here before purchasing and I am in wesrern Connecticut.
Sir Adam and friends, thanks for a nice forum.

ROD,
Did we ever run into each other? I used to paddle in the New England area, and did the Bull's Run section of the Housatonic a few times.
The Atom is smaller than the Cascade. The Cascade is a BIG C1. If you have trouble getting into a Cascade the Fink may be too small. But Martin can best handle the question.
SYOTR,
Bruce Farrenkopf

ROD,

I can't compare the room in the Finkenmeister to the cascade, since the last time I was in one of those was probably close to 10 years ago, so I pretty much don't remember anything about it.
But it is definitely quite a bit bigger than the Atom. The Atom's upper limit is probably somewhere around 220 lbs. It's cockpit opening is slightly longer and narrower than the one on the Finkenmeister, but the Atom skirt fits the Finkenmeister really well.
The cockpit in the Atom is way shallower than theone in the FM.

Since I am 6'3", 35" inseam, 22" thighs when kneeling, size 11 feet, 36" waist and 180 lbs, I have a hard time judging how well you will fit, but I was just outside and took a few measurements off my FM, hopefully this helps you to make a judgement of your own .
The cokpit is 23.5 x 23 inches (actually measured on the outside, so substact 2 inches).
The saddle is high for a C1, 9". This works well for me, but I am sure it could be raised by at least another inch without too many problems.
The distance from the back of the saddle to the front of the bulkhead is 16 inches, and this distance could if necessary easily be increased by 1-2" by shortening the bulkhead.
The depth of the hull in the cockpit area is ~13 ".
The leg openings in the bulkhead are 8"wide and 9" tall. I had to add 1" of foam on each sideto be reasonably thight in the boat, and there you could definitely widen it by 1-2" and possibly increase the height of the opening by another inch.

I cut the foam on the beavertails down so that the distance between them is now 12", but there is still plenty of foam left. you could cut off at least another inch on each sideand still have at least 1/4" of foam left.

The boat is definitely big at 74 gal. and could, in my opinion, easily handle a paddler with your weight. I find the boat very forgivig, a little less prymary but more secondary stability than the Atom for instance, but I do not know how this would be affected by paddler weight.
I do personally not have any class V experience, so It's hard for me to judge if it would be o.k. for you to run this kind of water, But I was confident enough last fall, after only 2-3 weekends in it to run a few rapids I had never attampted before.
The bow has definitely the lines and volume of a creeker, although the stern has somewhat lower volume and is slightly longer than on the average creekboat.

If you have any more question, fire them off !

martin

Since you are in NE, you could contact Kaz at Millbrook and see if he has a Wide Ride for you to try. One advantage of a composite boat is that many different cockpit rims can be installed. Kaz could put one in to allow you to sit high. The Wide Ride looks kind of Old School at first glance, but paddling shows it to have pretty sharp handling. And I say that having bought the Wide Ride because I got a bit fat for my Zealot.

Thanks for all the input. Martin, thatsalotta good info.
Next question is for anyone that has a Cascade that can measure the length and width of the cockpit as Martin did, and the height(depth) from the hull to the cockpit. I think that this is enough information for me to make an educated decision on the FINK fit. I built a makeshift pedestal here at my desk during lunch today and 11" high would probably be comfortable. 10" might get me by. While on this pedestal I am also about 22" of knee width. Never bought a boat sight(sat-in) unseen before but this info. is telling me that I can probably fit in this boat with a little TLC outfitting (I have lotsa minicell around). Make my decision after getting some Cascade dimensions. I am also thinking that if I can find a Finkenmeister and don't care for it, it won't be hard to get rid of.
Next question- does anyone know what, if any, the translation of Finkenmeister means?
Bruce, haven't been to Bulls Bridge in a few years, used to paddle it allot in the 70's. Only a few times in the late 80's and late 90's. Also, I have paddled cl. V water over the years but will have to build back up to it. Dryway on the Deerfield is about the limit for now. Really spent most of my early C-years on the lower Yough, since the late 60's. Parents just retired 3 miles from Ohiopyle put-in (top of the hill). Ran old glass boats(new then), quite a ride on the lower at 15'. The C-1 I was weaned on looks alot like the Wide Ride Kaz has(donated it to Charlie Waldbridge a couple of years ago for his barn/museum). It was the first boat Dave Yost ever designed,( I was the R&D paddler/helper) and came out of my families basement. Built second one from the mold for Jamie McKewan(sp?) out of Kevlar before Kevlar was even available on the market, I did the outfitting. Had allot of fun in that boat as a Junior in the 70's with the likes of Hearn, Lugbil,& Ford. Oh well, I digress.
Anyway, thanks for all the input and I will base my decision on the info about a Cascade.
Remeber, Spring is almost here and the water will once again flow. Be nice if I can show up with one of these things first time I meet any of you on the river.
One way or another, soon to be C-ROD again.

ROD,

The name of the designer of the boat is Thomas Fink (he is one of the best C1 paddlers in Europe, he ran the Falls of the Rhine, that's some serious stuff, has only be run 3 or 4 times, and he is the only C-boater to do so!).
'Meister' is German for master, so 'Finkenmeister' roughly translates into something like 'Master Fink' .

If you happen to come up North in the near future, I am in Toronto Canada, you could check my boat out and see if you fit.

martin

Anybody who has paddled the Rheinfall is a hero of mine. That is a spectacular big volume drop of 75 ft spaced out in three or four close sections. I wonder if he took the right side. Chances are the man knows something about C boating.
SYOTR,
Bruce

I definitely agree with Bruce, everyone who ran the Falls of the Rhine is definitely a hero!
75 ft drop, average flow of over 25.000 cfs !
Check it out:
http://www.rhinefalls.com/

martin