C-Forum

Hi,

So I'm the proud owner of a brand new Dagger Phantom (got the last one in the racks). I just started outfitting the boat and made all of my marks for pedestal placement, d-rings, knee cups, etc... when I noticed a sticker located under the gunwale that says:

"This is the bow end, the boat must be paddled with this end forward."

I had thought that this boat was symmetrical so it shouldn't matter which is the bow and which is the stern - right?

The only thing I noticed is that the stern thwart (stern according to the sticker) is placed further back 0.5" than the bow thwart. Could this be to help prevent leg entrapment in the stern thwart?

Is this boat really assymetrical? Any phantom owner out there ever seen the sticker I am talking about?

TIA,
squirrel

This article will help clear things up:
http://www.bobfoote.com/technique_tips/phantom.htm

Hi Lew,

I read the Foote article but it doesn't make any mention of symmetry - or assymetry for that matter. Googling "dagger phantom symmetry" comes up with a lot of descriptions that say the hull is symmetrical. So maybe my question should be restated:

Is there some other reason besides hull symmetry that there would be a bow end and a stern end?

I probably just bite the bullet and redo my layout anyway, but I can't help and be curious.

Squirrel

The old Dagger catalogs list it as a symmetrical hull

If you read the article carefully, you come across this:

"The edges have been softened a bit to make the boat more user-friendly when crossing eddy lines and side surfing. To increase its speed, <B> I incorporated a slight arch in the hull, forward of the midsection.</B> An added benefit of this arch is improved boat control through the use of knee pressure."

As far as I know, all this means is that you'd treat saddle placement (trim) like you would in a symmetrical boat, but just make sure that the right end is forward to take advantage of the hull shape.

cheers,
-allan

Hi Allan,

I did read the quote you posted and pondered whether this excludes a slight arch behind the midsection. I don't think it does (since this makes the boat assym.), but just to be on the safe side I plan on switching the layout around.

Thanks for all the replies,
Squirrel

In the article he mentions "a slight arch in the hull, forward of the midsection", to improve boat control. I assume that aft of the midsection is not the same.
He also says that the bow is "fuller to minimize diving", again I assume that the stern is different.
What I found most important is that he says the pedestal must be positioned so that your spine is 7-71/2" behind the center of the boat. "Any other placement will adversely affect performance".
Whether or not the boat is symetrical in common terms, is less important than the fact that there seems to be a distinct difference between the bow and stern design features. Placing the saddle so that you are facing toward the designed stern will surely make the boat perform badly.
LEW

His email address is on his website.

So how can you tell which is the bow and which the stern. I never saw any stickers in my phantom.

Juan

Serial Number plate is on the stern

Julie

Have a beat to hades phantom. The boat is definately asymetric, as Julie says put the serial number to the rear. The chines are a bit sharper on the bow for better carving, not nearly as good as my ocoee however.

obdave@yahoo.com

Well i guess thank you, just found out i've been paddling the boat backwards for the last 2 years

Hey, look at it from the bright side, from now on you can always blame the boat when things go wrong...

martin

mex_oc wrote:Well i guess thank you, just found out i've been paddling the boat backwards for the last 2 years

LOL i guess you can have a new improved boat without trading in your old one....