C-Forum

Mabye I'm a little unclear as to why people love these boats so much (atom, casacde and the finkimeister).

I have paddled the atom and the cascade a number of times and unless you're running rivers all the time these boats seem quite limiting. They are long, have huge volume and need a wave about the size of a small house to surf on.

Don't pigeon hole me as a playboater only, I still paddle class 4+ whenever I get the chance but I use a newer boat design (LL little joe). It offers me the ability to both play and run sweet lines. Any other time I paddle my Wavesport T2.

Basically what I'm curious about is why a number of C boaters love these old boat designs so much. I mean you rarely see people paddling dancers and R7s down rivers any more.

Just curious
don't want to step on anyones toes

Thanks
Jim

check out my reply under your original post (under Craig's "Atom/Cascade/Fink" post...).

I prefer longer boats because I am more into slalom-type moves on the river, and the short boats do not do such moves well. The Atom is pretty good, and can be used on most rivers. I have paddled a Dagger Zealot since '96, and now that I am fatter and older, I am trying a Millbrook Wide Ride.

There is no reason why you should care whether your boat will be decent on a slalom course, and for what you want to do, a shorter boat is certainly preferable.

Incidentally, the Atom is WORLDS beyond a Dancer. The Atom is arguably one of the finest "displacement" hulls ever made.

An additional point about "long" boats. I am 6' 5", and actually rather short-legged for my height, so much of that height is way up above my hip bones. Kayaks under nine feet long are not proportioned for my height and weight (215). I also kayak, and with my tall, heavy superstructure waving around, short kayaks give a queasy feeling. Longer, old-school c-1s (I started with a Hahn in '74) provide the kind of working base I need to throw crazy cross strokes, and to unload the bow or stern with weight shifts.

man, those Wavesport Transformers look like they would make GREAT c-1s -- they are as wide as a small car! I would love to try one sometime.

But then again, I remember seeing a guy in his 40s in an Atom on the Nantahala. He was there about twice a week -- he would park at that dinky little surf wave at "Surfer's Rapid." He was baby-sitting his kids those days, they would play on the beach and he would do big ender after big ender in his Atom on that little wave. It was like his day off from work. He was having a blast in that long thing on a tiny little wave.

thanks for the input on longer boats
You guys have made some valid points

My buddy still has an atom in his garage, mabye I'll take it for a little ender session tonite.

As for the T2...
at my weight and height (170 lbs, 5'9") it is one kick butt playboat!

Thanks

Why a long boat? Speed and stability comes quickly to mind. I can control a C-boat much better by carving my turns and longer boats carve turns better. They also hold a ferry much better and they're also much more stable in big water. I tried a short C-1 (Cascade) in the Grand Canyon and had a terrible time controlling it. My 13-foot Morrison Hahn on the other hand has always performed flawlessly. Even in steep creeks I spend too much time upside down in my short Cascade but I do superbly in my long open canoes.

My hat goes off to anyone who can control one of those short C-1 conversions. You're a better man than me.

By the way, I'm neither old-school nor new-school. I'm more often referred to as "pre-school".


Jim Michaud