lap belts aka suicide straps

nathan · Post by **nathan** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:25 am

I am currently using a lap belt in my S6 and I was wondering what everyone's opinion them is. Luckily for me, in outfitting my boat, I also left it upgradable for thigh straps if I prefer. I will probably use those in the future but am happy with the lap belt for now. Does anyone use lap belts in their boat? I only ask because my only concern is on the safety risk they pose in restricting a safe and quick wet exit.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:37 pm

There has been a lot of lap belt discussion in the past..try a search for "lap belt" from the menu at the top of the page and see what comes up... A summary from memor: a few people use them, a few more buckly in for park and play, then release to run the rest of the river, and a lot of us stay away from them. Personally I like nice tight thigh straps (and far back) and a bit of a bulk head for the ultimate fit in my squirt boats.

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:38 pm

I use a bulkhead with a lapbelt, the norwater one, i have modified it so that it one hole side comes off with one pull of the buckle, asnother good option is rigging up a airplane seatbelt.

colorado c-1er · Post by **colorado c-1er** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:36 pm

i use a lap belt in my session+ c-1. i used a rescue belt off of a pfd. the cam buckle is quick releasing and easy to grab if needed. i have tried bulkheads and thigh straps but they don't hold me in as well. i also had safety concerns, and being tied into a boat takes a little getting used to but this type of belt is easy to release and only takes one more quick move to bail out.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 25, 2004 2:12 am

I have a semi-bulkhead, hip pads, and a Northwater lap belt in my ForPlay (I still can't paddle it for sh*t).

It used to make me a lot more nervous, until I attatched a T-grip from an old paddle to the small red ball on the quick release. (it looks like a big red ball until you're upsidedown under water fishing around for it under your skirt- then it's the size of a BB!) NOw i have this big honkin' T-grip and knot and i can find it right away no problem.
I also triple check every time i get in the boat and tighten it to make sure there are no twists in the belt or anything that could jam it from releasing, and i always practice my wet exit at the takeout.

that's all i can do, short of not paddling the boat, cuz I sure don't know how i'd put in thigh straps without gutting it and starting over

NZMatt · Post by **NZMatt** » Tue May 25, 2004 1:06 pm

Here's one from personal experience (look at my old posts if you want more info....and I highly recommend you do). If you do use a suicide belt....practise and practise and practise that wet exit. First in flatwater, then in safe moving water with a friend there to rescue. I had practised, but when it came to needing to, I couldn't release it and had to wiggle out of it (fortunately I hadn't snugged it tight). I just got out before my boat pinned and was severely damaged (ie. I was nearly severely damaged/terminated). The difficulty I found was that although I had practised in flatwater, when trashed in moving water I had slid further out of my outfitting, putting more pressure on the belt and I didn't have the strength to push the release button (I also used the wrong sort of buckle).

For what it's worth, I used thigh straps and the suicide belt - using the suicide belt for play boating and just the thigh straps for river running. None of my current boats have a suicide belt, but I might use one again (with a different buckle) in the future. I don't think it adds a lot more control than a good pair of double (knee and thigh), equalizing thigh straps.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:01 pm

The only boat where I use a suicide belt is my Delirious playboat, since otherwise I tend to get sucked out when looking for a sound thrashing in a hole

... I only use it when playingat a *safe* spot, on any stretches where I think the lap belt might be a safety hazard, I undo it before entering the rapid.
Be definitely very careful in your choice of buckle, I would only use a quick release cam buckle or an aircraft seatbelt buckle, i like those even more (on that note, does anyone know where I could get one of those), and practice, practice, practice your wet exits, and not only in flat water, practice them also in moving water, it is quite different!
In my creeking/riverrunning boats (Finkenmeister / Atom / Noah America C2) I use either the factory bulk head without straps (FM) or the factory thigh strap system (Atom / America C2). They hold me in very well, but I would probably come out eventually if I was looking for a sound thrashing in a hole

...

martin

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:34 pm

The lap belt works well for keeping your butt on the seat. I have a Northwater belt with extended glide ring webbing which moves the points 3-4" closer so you can access them. The Twintip has a bulkhead and foam hippgrabber setup. The belt only gets used in "safe" spots to play. Also let your fellow boaters know you have the belt on.... if you flip and loose your paddle or can't get out, you and they should be familiar with the bow grab method of rescue... (ie they bump you and you grab their bow to right yourself... same as the kayakers do). Lap belts are great but they are dangerous.... if your roll isn't close to 100% don't even consider them... seriously!

Be safe and have fun!
Craig

Drew W. · Post by **Drew W.** » Wed May 26, 2004 2:02 am

the old volkswagon bug seatbelts are identical to the aircraft seatbelts i think
http://www.bughaus.com/beetle_seat_belt ... onents.htm
props to tim for the tip

NZMatt wrote:Here's one from personal experience (look at my old posts if you want more info....and I highly recommend you do). If you do use a suicide belt....practise and practise and practise that wet exit. First in flatwater, then in safe moving water with a friend there to rescue. I had practised, but when it came to needing to, I couldn't release it and had to wiggle out of it (fortunately I hadn't snugged it tight). I just got out before my boat pinned and was severely damaged (ie. I was nearly severely damaged/terminated). The difficulty I found was that although I had practised in flatwater, when trashed in moving water I had slid further out of my outfitting, putting more pressure on the belt and I didn't have the strength to push the release button (I also used the wrong sort of buckle).

For what it's worth, I used thigh straps and the suicide belt - using the suicide belt for play boating and just the thigh straps for river running. None of my current boats have a suicide belt, but I might use one again (with a different buckle) in the future. I don't think it adds a lot more control than a good pair of double (knee and thigh), equalizing thigh straps.

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:27 pm

I use a lapbelt in my two C1s. Both have a short piece of webbing tied to the quick release at one in and with velco at the other end. The velco end is attached to the spray skirt pull (I have attached another piece of velco to the skirt pull). In theory, one pull should release both the spray skirt and the lapbelt. If not, then you have to also pull the lapbelt release. Because the velco is 1 inch wide and about 3 inches long, the two pieces release easily so that you are not tied to the boat.

Again, practice wet exits.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:03 am

Gee-wiz

i wonder how they got that nickname?
Here's what i think.
If you can't wiggle out without pulling some ripcord or other doohicky you may be sorry someday. I don't care how much you practice.
You have to be able to get out in a bad situation, in a PANIC!! Do people practice those kinds of exits? I don't think so.
I would rather spend a little bit more time outfitting.

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:22 am

I think Larry's comment above is dead-on. Focus on snugging up your conventional thigh-strap outfitting, and use those thigh muscles to stay in the boat.
Suicide belts are a big risk even for playboating. Perhaps the risk is tolerable if there are other boaters watching for and responsive to any problem arising at the playspot. Any boater with a suicide belt should let his buddies know he's got one on, so that they can go after him when he fails the third roll attempt.
River running would be a big No-No

.
SYOTR,
Bruce

bullwinkle · Post by **bullwinkle** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:37 am

I have a newish Super D from Kaz. I'd run gates in it for two NESS slaloms and fell out of the outfitting(thigh straps) once. As a quick fix I threw in a lap(suicide) belt with a quick release cam buckle which releases by pulling either the buckle or the strap. Off to my favorite, local, rec river...

I've been down the Dryway section of the Deerfield(MA) several dozen times. K-1 slalom boats, kayak playboats and lately C-1 conversions of Wavesport's Z and Ace 5.1.

Fear kept me from enjoying the day. And nothing went awry. I think I may never boat again with a lap belt unless it's a pool or a wave just upstream of a reservoir.

chuck naill · Post by **chuck naill** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:34 pm

I will add my two cents to the discussion. I would suggest constructing a bulkhead out of minicell. I have found that this keeps the knees down and spread apart for good balance. Additionallly us a thigh strap system. I know this will not keep the posterior down completily, but this has to be a safer system. Remember nobody rolls 100% of the time. If you have to get out you need that option.
Regards,
Chuck

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:47 pm

Use your lower body muscles to keep your butt in your boat.

Use your thigh straps or bulkhead, in combination with your butt on your seat, to transfer power to the hull.

If you need to tie yourself inside the boat to paddle it, then maybe you should consider a k-1 until you are strong enough to paddle C-1.

C-Forum

lap belts aka suicide straps

lap belts aka suicide straps

Try a search...

c-1 lap belt

Northwater lap belt

suicide belts

Re: suicide belts

lap belt

construct a bulkhead