C-Forum

I found a forplay for sale locally. Bought it last night. I test drove it on the lake by sitting on my helmet
Thanks to everybody who took the time to answer my questions. Specially so since after I'd spent some time in the archives I realized that you guys answer that question over and over and over...
Now for my next question:Bulkhead or thighstraps? Who prefers what? I'm leaning toward thighstraps and a fencerail type setup but that's not based on a lot of experience. The existing thigh pads in the hull are pretty well placed to pad out and use for support. I was surprised how tight I could lock into the hull sitting on my helmet w/ no outfitting. Also, I saw a local score conversion and it was oilcanned pretty badly. What's worse - oilcanning or shimming under the fencerail to stiffen the hull and thereby create a hardspot?

WW

I've never used the fence set up but have seen it and it looks solid. That said here are my thoughts (everyone has their personal preferrences and you'll find yours over time):
I use both straps and a thigh block. I like the straps a bit further back on "meat" of my thighs (on my chicken legs) to help in keeping the forces centered for rotation, etc. - I use them in conjunction with ankle blocks.
I also use a smaller bulk head in front of the cockpit, over the knee area, for full contact around the knees for more leverage (I'm not sure if my explaination makes sense but my knees / legs fint into "tunnels" in block ).
I have this set up in a couple boats and it can be slide into place and easliy removed if need be. I feel (or at least hope) I can rip it out if need be if I had to in a pin, etc.
I can send photos if interested - just PM me with your email.
I used the factory thigh K braces in an X I had for a while (used it as a cross dresser that could be used as a K or C) but finally pulled them since they limited the amount of leg spread I could get. Removing them improved stablity a bit (just a bit) and since I added a thigh block in their place I fit tighter and was more comfortable.
As for oil canning I place either (or both) 1/4 inch minicell or a plastic sheeting across the bottoms of my boats. I do that to protect me more than the boat (adds durability, keeps me warmer in cold water and protects me from my ongoing ability to do stupid things to the bottom of my boats).
Hope this helps! Let us know how it works out and enjoy!

Thanks. I think I'm gonna start with kneecups and thighstraps. I can add the bulkhead if I need it later.
Now, about that plastic sheet...I was thinking that a big sheet of HDPE (black plastic like the dagger pedestal) would be a more elegant way to secure the rail than the aluminum barstock. Do you know where to get hold of some?
Besides being well balance and secure my goal for this outfitting is a craftsmanlike job. There will probably be a lot of yakkers peering into the cockpit from time to time and I want it to look good.

WW

If you can't find it at http://www.mcmaster.com/, it doesn't exist. Do a search on hdpe. You could probably get it from a plastics supply house too, if you have one locally.

I picked up a sheet of 1/4" ABS from a local dealer around here (Piedmont Plastics) and cut out my pieces and used a heat gun to bend them so they would mold to the inside curve of the hull. I had to attach some of the pieces once they were in the boat and used pop-rivets for that, substituting ABS for alum using a fencerail base conversion. Just some ideas for you.

Hey mshelton that's exactly what I had in mind! How'd it work out?
I checked out McMasters. They've got it. If I can't find what I need locally Atlanta's not far away. That place is better than Grainger and that's sayin a lot. Thanks for the link.

WW

I've come a click away from ordering some plastic from McMaster-Carr but they never show you the freight - that could be a lot for a 2'x2' or larger item. If you order, I'd be interested to hear what you got and what they charged.

Scott

It worked out real well. I'm going to be working on my boats this weekend so I'll unbolt the saddle and take some pics. The hardest part was figuring out what shapes and where to place the braces, once I got that worked out the boat came together great. One of the nice things too was that I didn't have to drill any additional holes in the hull or perm mount anything. I'll try and post those pics by sunday. Good luck with your project.

A kayaker I know asked me to convert an Amp for him and I agreed to it - who knows, he might become a full time convert!

I just picked up a sheet of ABS from a local supplier, too. I bought .060 thickness because that will be adequate for a lot of the structure (where the knee pads will be for instance) and I've got plenty of ABS cement to build it up where I need a greater thickness. A 4x8 sheet was only $14 - that's less than I paid last time (5 years ago?)!

When I was loading it up, the guy helping me noticed my boat and asked what kind it was (this was my Score) then asked me if I'd heard of Dagger. Seems they sell Dagger a lot of ABS and Polyethylene for outfitting and accessories...

Scott

I called a local plastic supply house and the guy who answered the phone was a paddler. He suggested the 1/4" HDPE - at $85 for a 4X8 sheet
Anyway he wasn't keen on using ABS because it doesn't perform as well when its cold.
McMasters has got 1/2 sheets for $37.50. At that price I could drive to Atlanta to pick it up.
Some further thoughts: Break over a flange on the edge of the plastic to bolt up to the seat mounting holes. Then slide the plastic in and use a heat gun to conform it to the hull. Finally break a flange on the other side to bolt in. I thought I'd shim between the fencerail and plastic with minicell and glue the two together - that way there are no fasteners to rub the bottom and everything is solid. Now, secure ankle pads and kneecups to the HDPE and saddle and thighstraps to the rail and seat mounting holes.

Can't wait to see those pics m.

WW

Here's the link to the pics. Sorry, I haven't resized them yet, I do plan to and to write something up about them but I new you wanted to see them. No wisecracks about the 'lazy-boy' model seat OK?

The link would probably help

http://66.173.227.220/H3/

What thickness is your plastic? I bought mine yesterday and it's 1/4". It's white which kinda surprised me.

Questions. questions. questions:
How did you break over your angles like the ones that bolt the rail to the plastic strap? That seat back is really neat. Did you glue or use a plastic welder? If you glued what did you use and how has it held up? Did I see a thru-bolt at the side of the hull through the plastic strap?

Thanks for the photos. It really looks great!

WW

My plastic is 1/4".
I used a bench vise and some 2x4 scraps and a Wagner heat gun to make the bends. When heating up the plastic do a few test peices first, I found that if you heat it slowly with the gun a reasonable distance away then the plastic will very nicely w/o any "burn" looking marks. The seat back is just a peice of plastic that I bent the edges of to give it some backwards rigidity (if that makes sense) and contact cemented it to the foam part of the backrest and vina-bonded it to the base plate of the seat. Fortunately for me the bolt that connects the straps to the hull are part of the original yak outfitting so I didn't have to extend them all the way to the seat hanger bolts. Also it is not 1 continuious strap. It is 2 peices that are held together by being bolted to the fence-rail and seat. The L shaped brackets that allow the strap to the seat and fence-rail are vina-bonded and pop-rivited (works real good and strong). Take your time with trying to figure out what you're going to do. I went through about 6 different designs before I ended up with this one. You got a pretty big sheet of plastic so if you don't like the way something's going, rip it out and go back to the drawing board, you'll be happy you did. Also measure, measure again, go to sleep, measure again the nest day and once more for good measure.

Let me know if I can help you any more or if you wants some more pics, I'm going to make a new seat so hopefully I can post some photos of that too.

MS

Ok, great, I think I get it. Just 1 more...what's vina-bond?

WW