C-Forum

Is anyone familiar with the MRC Fantasy? I haven't been able to find much. Perhaps very few were made, or they were very unpopular?

I'm rejoining the sport after a 20 year hiatus. I'm a fluvial hydrologist with a love of all rivers. Long ago I spent two summers learning ww in the NE. I'm partial to composite boats and love what I see on Kaz's site. I'm interested initially in something fairly tame and in which I can teach my kids the basics (and re-learn myself, of course).

I now live in Western Washington which has always been K-1 country. I'd like to tour from Class II+/III- in the foothills of the Cascade and Olympic mountains, downstream to the tidal estuaries. I already have a flatwater OC-1. I'm not a playboater (yet) and have never been in a modern slalom OC-1. Hence, my initial interest in the MRC Fantasy (a "short ME", which may also be a good possible choice).

I've studied some other alternatives - possibly Kaz’s Rival 12 or the Class V Edge 13? Since river touring here also involves long stretches of flat water during much of the year, something that tracks reasonably well is also on the menu (A Bell Flashfire in occasional Class III-??). Of course, there is no one perfect boat. Perhaps one now and another next year.

I've been reading here avidly, and understand the range of performance envelopes from the Zoom/Prelude to the Rival/Probe. Can you help me fill in the gap to the ME/Fantasy and then to the Flashfire/Wildfire/Osprey?

Any guidance (or alternatives) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

John

The Flashfire is too small, and the Wildfire can't handle the heavier and more demanding half of class 2. The Edge is pretty much an old racing design and is too rockered and edgy for general purpost. Given that you may take the kids along, watch for used Dagger Captions, Mad River Synergies, and Mohawk Probe 14s. I am not sufficiently familiar with the Esquif line, but would recommend you look at both of their 13' tandems. Millbrook's light version of the Rival would be good for solo cruising, not so good for taking the kids. Personally, I like a Millbrook model called the Hooter, a fattened version of the Kyote, but the Defender (formerly called the Fat Boy) would have better ability to carry a small kid and some gear.

I will only say in addition that my Synergy, a 15' boat built mainly for tandem, has been a wonderful solo cruiser, quite willing to go in a straight line once you find the "sweet spot." It (and the Caption) will blow around in the wind, but I have always been able to control that.

Going back to compromise boats, the Mad River Guide, now called the Freedom Solo, is a much better whitewater boat than the Bell Wildfire, but it still is not really a class 3 boat. The ends are too sharp and there is not enough rocker. I own one.

Check out the Bell Prodigy and/or Prodigy X. I paddle a Prodigy and love it. It has a little less rocker than a lot of other OC-1's but still can handle almost as much ww as you can paddle (class iv no problem). It is easy to track and heel and is pretty fast for a ww boat. An efficient open boat. I have also paddled the Wildfire down plenty of class II-II+ water in it and it is a sweet mild river touring boat with freestyle fun.

Thanks for your help.

g2d -

I've looked at the Hooter and Defiant. How do they compare with the Edge, in terms of being slalom designs that might be too rockered and edgy for general river cruising / touring?

How would the Millbrook ME compare with the Caption or your Synergy?

I might not have been clear regarding my son. I want to teach him to paddle solo - not take him in my solo boat. He's heading toward 90 lbs. now, so if he's with me, I'll look toward the ME as a tandem, or maybe a Prowler?

In plastic, I've seen the Esquif Blast & Vertige, and read about the upcoming Vertige-X. All very promising. Any preferences?

cbcboat - I've also looked at the Prodigy-X, and now the Nexus. Do you have any experience with the Nexus? It seems to fill the gap between the Prodigy / Rival and the Rendezvous / ME / Prowler.

Thanks again.

I have paddled the Nexus tandem but have only paddled around flat water with it solo. Performs like most tandem canoes will when paddled solo. Nice paddling boat though. Good solo river tripping/ big water boat. As with other tandems will catch the wind because of the buoyancy/ amount of boat out of the water. Definately a fast boat and pretty easy to paddle for Royalex. The Prodigy X is a nice boat too. Have you paddled one?

cbcboat -

Thanks for the info on the Nexus. That's about what I expected.

Living in Western Washington I haven't paddled any of these boats. They aren't sold by retailers here. Almost no one buys an OC-1 in WA. Therefore there is no used boat market either. This is K-1 territory, and mostly sea kayaks at that.

There is a small local canoe club with perhaps 15 active members. The photos on their website show mostly Mohawk boats: Probes, Vipers and a Shaman, with the occasional unidentified C-1. Myguess is that they buy factory direct.

The home of Clipper Canoe (Western Canoe and Kayaking) is just 2.5 hours north in Abbotsford BC. They make Kevlar / Duraflex (heavy composite) versions of the Probe 12 and Viper 11 & 12, and their own 15' 4" Merganser OC1/OC2. There is a small lake nearby for demos.

Most of the hulls I'm interested in aren't available in Abbotsford either. While Western C&K is also a Bell dealer, Bell is a direct competitor for Clipper, so I'd probably be stuck with a Prodigy or Nexus if I ordered it.

I need to do a bit more research, but the short list contains the Millbrook Rival, Defiant, and ME; the Prodigy-X and the Esquif Vertige-X. Too bad the Fantasy isn't available anywhere anymore (let alone in composite). If the Flashfire had just a little more depth (volume)...

I've never seen a sweeter boat than the Clipper Viper 12. I'd love to own one eventually. It'd be worth the trip for you to head up there and test paddle one. Of course I love the Rival also, even though I've only paddled the Royalex version from Dagger. Lots of great boats out there. Have fun shopping.

Keep weight in mind when shopping, it does make a difference. The Canoe Rack in Missoula has Bell demos. I have also paddled the Defiant and think it would be a good touring/ ww boat. Being composite it is fairly llight weight and paddles real nice, like most composites. Paddle as many different boats as you can before you buy.

Hi Gryphon,

Your assessment of WA sounds pretty grim, it's not Paddle Trails you're talking about, is it? Through my little exposure (from Vancouver, BC), I've been impressed with them.

http://www.paddletrails.org/

I paddled with them on July 4th weekend and there were tons of people. We had about 30 boats out each day on the class II-III Methow River. Perhaps it is who you were talking about, the mix of boats sounds about right (Viper, Probe, Ocoee, Outrage, Nitro, ME, Genesis, H2Pro, Rival, Impulse, etc. and the odd C-1) . But clubs with 15 "active" members might be about as good as it gets around here, and the club appears to have scheduled trips every weekend and offers good training.

The club is also a good source for used boats. This year I heard of the used Outrage I bought through PTCC, and I sold my Old Town Otter to somebody in the club.

In BC, you can look for used boats through Western Canoeing, and the Beaver Canoe Club, Dogwoods, Middletons Boats, or Mountain Equipment Co-op's Gear Swap.

http://www.beavercanoeclub.org/
http://www.dogwoodcanoe.com/
http://www.middletonsboats.com/
http://www.mec.ca/index.html

I strongly believe hooking up with Paddle Trails is your best bet to get back into it. They're going to be on the Skagit and Skykomish this weekend.

Good luck, Pat.

Can anyone tell me about the Hooter and / or Defiant for river cruising? My point of comparison would be a Rival.

let me see, you like composites, want something that kind of tracks on flat but handles class 3. different from a kayak. real class 3 rapids in oc requires good skills (unless it's a gunnel grabbing oh my god run) and although could be managed in less than a true ww boat, is most fun and nicer experience --and much more manageable and drier in real ww boat. most pick boats for day class 3 runs for the ww stuff and deal with flatwater.

i've seen royalex wildfire in low class 3; i think the flash and wildfie composites are great freestylr boats and need to be heeled to gunnel to break ends free. can't see starting a kid in a Kaz rce boat (defiant) with kevlar layup--he will bounce off rocks and thats expected. vertige will handle up tp intermed. track better on flat and startind off you will both love it.

get yourself another boat next year after a season in vertige