C-Forum

Do we have many laddlies paddling C1 slalom and if so do you think we`ll see any laddies paddling in the Olympics down the road ?

certainly there are some very good c-1 "dubs" -- but there aren't as many as kayakers. that would be cool to see a c-1w class in the olympics some day.

i bet that if it were announced that c1w would be in the next olympics, you would see some people really training in that category and getting good -- around the world. the olympics has such power. same goes for c-2w. heck, swimming has about a million events in the games, why not have c-2 mixed?
Alden

How would it work ? How does the IOC start that whole process in opening up other events such as C1 for the ladies ?

There has to be enough countries that would support C1W to the ICF (International Canoe Federation) in order for it to even be considered. If the ICF won't support it then it will never get into the Olympics. My experience is that the Europeans think American women are wasting their time for paddling C1. Actually there are some Americans in the slalom community that do not support women in C1 either.

C2Mixed was discontinued as an official international class after the World Championships in either 81 or 83 I can't remember which. (John Sweet would know). I believe the reasoning was not enough countries supported it. Basically there is not much support for women in canoes except in Open Canoe in the US and Flatwater C1W in Canada. The only way to get more support is to encourage more women to paddle C1, C2 and C2Mixed on a regular basis and push for it in all events that take place in the US. Until we get women to compete at the National level in C1W consistently we don't have much of an argument to push the ICF.

Unfortunately, my skill level in C1 is not up to the Nationals, although I did race it once at Junior,Senior,Masters Nationals which was a bit easier at the time. I think I only 50'd 3 or 4 gates .

C1Dub

I saw an extremely sharp looking and good paddling gal in a junior racing event on the Nantahala. She was about 6 feet tall and used her leverage well on the course.

Ahhh, is whitewater slalom (of any kind) going to be included in the 2008 Olympics? Did the Chinese have paddlers in Athens? Is whitewater slalom a permanent olympic sport, or still an "exibition" sport?

little known fact: yes, Rebecca Giddens won silver in women's kayak, but she is also (or so I'm told -- it's top secret) an expert c-1 and c-2 paddler . . .
Alden

Other expert ladies would include Cathy Hearn, Carrie Ashton, Linda Harrison., all expert K-1s as well. The first time I ever saw Cathy Hearn she was racing the boys in a C-1.

It is a shame that the Euros, the ICF, and the TV promoters have such an influence on what happens at the competitor level by limiting the international classes. The C-2 classes will soon be endangered, and eventually C-1 as well....

As a certified International Slalom Judge and someone who has supported the movement to get whitewater slalom racing into the Olympics, I have watched the debate on adding classes to national and international slalom competition. The prospects for expanding the classes to include more women's classes are not good.

The USA Canoe Kayak (national governing body for canoe/kayak racing in the US) lists C1W, C2W and C2M as official classes that can be offered by local organizing committees (LOC) that sponsor USACK-sanctioned races. But, those LOCs seldom push women's classes other than K1W. Whether this is by design, lack of funds or lack of interest, I have seen NO 3-boat women's classes other than K1W formed in any of the races I have officiated in my 11 years as a slalom judge.

I have also seen the debate rage among those who would push the USACK to press the International Canoe Federation to include womens decked canoe classes in international events. The arguments on both sides seem the same now as in the past. It seems to be a Catch 22.

The USACK rules recognize C1W, C2W and C2M as official competitive classes. But rarely are women's decked boat classes offered at sanctioned US races. If they are, so few women register that there is no class, and hence no medal. (Women in those events are folded into the men's classes.) Arguments rage that if the US pushes slalom racing for women in decked canoes, women's racing careers would be dead-ended with national competition being as far as they can go. That would water down the funds available for the 4 international classes.

There is no incentive for the USACK to press forward on this internationally, they say. They would only alienate the international community, which has no interest in being more inclusive. And, since slalom canoe/kayak is not yet a permanent Olympic sport, the ICF does not want to generate any bad press that would risk slalom canoe/kayak's inclusion in Olympic bids through 2012. (China has included it for 2008. The NYC bid to host the 2012 Summer Games includes whitewater slalom. But, the sport is not permanent. Each city vying to host the Summer Games has the discretion to include or omit it from their bid. If they include it and win the bid, slalom is in. But the number of boats allowed to race in each class varies from Olympics to Olympics, based on the host's bid.)

The only way to move the idea forward is to get women interested in and paddling and racing decked canoes as children. As they grow up with the sport, they will demand and get inclusion. At some point, they could spark interest if they compete internationally (assuming some race organizers would permit that) and only then would women cboaters get to race regularly on an international basis.

If cboat slalom survives the millenium, there may be a chance to see women in that aspect of slalom. And, I would be pushing for support from my post at that point, whether in heaven or hades.

cboater

Pretty good description. The C-2M class, which actually had a long history of serious competition in Europe, would be the most logical class to revive. In the years leading up to the final debacle in 81, when the US C-2Ms won everything in slalom and to further rub it in, in the absence of a wildwater mixed class the C-2M team of Hipsher & Johns further infuriated the Euros by paddlling in the men's team run in which the US finished 4th (Bunny & Mike actually had the fastest C-2 time at the US trials, & were NOT the reason why the US team didn''t medal...) the complaint was poor quality of competition. But who was going to train seriously with a partner if you weren't sure the class would even be contested? So the few teams that competed in '81 were largely pick-up teams. And then there is the ego thing. Everyone wants to tell their friends, their boss, the neighbors, and the local news media that they are "training to try to make the Olympic team", even though they haven't a rat's butt chance of making it, because the magic O-word sounds like something big. So nobody is going to train with a woman, because that amounts to tacit public admission that you aren't "trying to make the Olympics". Hence no (or very little) competition. This is why nothing is going to get changed from the bottom up -- there is no bottom there to build on. The only way it would change is for Britney Spears to decide to paddle C-2M on cable TV. Fox, are you listening???

......seems like a shame. I heard "trampoline" (no kidding!) was in the Oly's this year... anyone heard of other obscure events this year?

interesting though -- are there any other events in the olympics where men and women compete or against each other? i cant think of any.

There is at least 1 Olympic sport in which men and women compete against one another. It is in the equestrian events. Sorry, I don't know which specific event(s) would be omni-sex. My equestrian friends told me about this after they had attended the 2004 US Equestrian Team Trials in Lexington, KY.

Interesting...........

But maybe that's because the women are wearing hardly anything.

I always said that one reason boating will never appeal to the TV industry is that you can't compete with things like swimming & gymnastics when you are wearing lifejackets and helmets...

Its to bad, even here we have some sexist baboons !!!