C-Forum

Can anyone tell me about hull speed with the Esquif Nitro? I'm looking for a boat to paddle II-III water, do some surfing. My sense is the Nitro surfs well, but you need a motor to get to the surf hole. Anyone tried the Spark for surfing, or mostly slalom?

That was pretty much my opinion of the Nitro until I started paddling a SupEZ C1, thay Nitro runs like a scalded ape now. Best I can say is that it's all relative to what you're used to.

the nitro is not fast compared to other boats, but once you get it up to speed she doesn't slow down. I find my self a little behind in some flat water when paddling with friends in Ocoee and Prodigys but that flat plaining hull is a dream on a monster surf wave all you have to do is sit and surf . ONe caution to the plaining hull is that it does have a tendency to get caught up on sticky stuff every so often ( maybe thats just me) I love mine and wouldn't be happier with anything else ( MAYBE A Taureau)

I don`t mean to be a stickler, but its just that I`ve seen it said before. Although there is a flat section on the bottom of the Nitro, Detonator and Blast. these hulls are displacement hulls.... not planning hulls.

Al

Actually, Esquif themselves describe the Nitro as a "true planning hull".
A planning hull is designed to ride up onto the bow wave, thus reducing drag.
I have paddled the Nitro, Detonator and Blast. All three clearly rise as they are brought up to speed.

LEW

We`ve owned and paddled both the Blast and the Detonator since they first came out. True, Esquif does say that its hull design makes it a planing hull. True, a planing hull is designed so at faster speeds it will ride up on its own bow wave.

Lew do you put a motor on these boats ? About the only time that you`ll get these boats up to speed is on a wave.

There are a number of factors that also come into play with this boat design that will give you the feel that your bow has come up..... The extreme stern rocker that allows the stern to sit back on the wave as you lean back. And the big round bow that does not cut itself into the green water.

The two double chines act more like a soft chined boat and with its short flat mid section this boat displaces water, it doesn`t let it ride up onto its bow wave.

I`ve had this conversation with when Paul Mason, Mark Scriver, Andrew Westwood and Joe Langman when they where throwing around ideas of designs about the Taureau as a creek boat ( which is a true planing hull ). The Nitro by some people maybe considered a semi-displacement hull, somewhere in between a planing hull and a displacement hull given the way it surfs.

Al

I think when talking about planing hulls and boat speed, there is a lot of confusion out there.
Planing hulls are slower than pure displacement hulls or need more energy/power to reach the same speed at low speed, when they are not planing.
The only time the boat speed relative to the water gets high enough to actually plane is when surfing a wave. I have never seen anyone getting their ww boat to planing speed while paddling, and believe that this is virtually impossible.
So from personal experience having tried the Nitro a few times I would say that it is slower than similar boats with true displacement hull, however once you are surfing on a reasonably fast wave, it is faster.

So when talking about wether a boat is fast or not, one should always specify i.m.h.o. whether it is planing speed on a wave or paddling (cruising) speed.

martin

Not sure if I was imagining it or not - but after all this planing hull discussion, this past weekend I exited an eddy in my Nitro to surf in particularily fast-moving current and watched my boat rise up out of the water (at least the bow) ... thought it was pretty cool. Not sure if the stern got out of the water, but it would have been pretty cool if it did. I suspect that were I to weigh in a little lighter the chances of the entire boat planing would have increased.

Also I think that the boat is so long that at least some portion of the stern is invariably sitting in the foam or beyond the crest - slower moving water, not conducive to planing - so what Al says makes sense.

A note on speed. It certainly is a little slower than say an Ocoee or a Rival - I spent a lot of time complaining how slow it was. As my technique improved I found it to be much more fun, and the speed thing wasnt as much of a pain factor. You can typically make the same moves as any other boat, you may have to work a little harder to do it - but it surfs well, and is quite stable when full of water.

It's a great boat for a beginner to an intermediate paddler.

Enjoy!
Mike.

Hey gang.

Really trying to get some other opinions on OC-1 boats here. The nitro sounds super fun, but I've also heard good things about the MR Outrage, Bell Prodigy, Mohawk Probe II, and Shaman.

If any of you good compare the Nitro to any of these, I would very much appreciate it. I will be testing out an Outrage and Nitro when I'm down in Vancouver this spring.... but I would also like to hear others experiences.

Thanks

I have tried everything mentioned and everything else as well ... and it still comes down to the Ocoee. Unless you are a beginner, anyone can grow into it. Yes, it probably has a few flaws but it is light, fast, surfs great and with the hard chines, actually carves turns in and out of eddies. I am 190 pounds (or more?!?) and feel the boat is close to being maxed out but think it would be even better for someone that weighs considerably less than me. I am hoping Esquif will consider making a Zoom X for people in my weight range. That is the only other boat that I would care to own at this time. Besides 5 or 6 of the Millbrook Boats, that is. The Spark IS fun but have not had a chance to "play" in it yet ... only paddled it in a slalom.

Ditto what Alan says, my Shaman is a good boat, has not been out in a year since I started into the Ocoee. I recently (4 trips) started into a Zoom, and suprise it is drier than the Ocoee, especially after a roll. At times I'd swear it is even faster!

The funny thing about dryness, I paddled a Detonator for a while and for me it was wetter than the Ocoee, yet the smaller Zoom seems dryer...

BTW - I'm overweight for all of these @ 207# but what are ya gonna do paddle a Tripper?

Recently got back into a friends Shaman, I felt like I was paddling a tandem boat solo. The Shaman is fast but the Zoom comes up to speed the fastest of all.

Bottom line, nothing beats the precision of those boats with an edge, you stroke less to get where you want to be!

Being the semi-proud owner of a Nitro I can comment

Edgy like the Ocoee - I like that. Makes for fun eddy turns.
Surfs sometimes better than the Ocoee because it's a little slower. THe Ocoee tends to bounce ahead on waves, get buried in the green and then as a result spit you out. (NOTE Depends on waves)
Nitro- one of the easiest boats to paddle with a full load of water
Outrage (aka Rival Soft Chines make for soft (sloppy) eddy turns. -yawn-

If you're under 190 go for the prelude/zoom - more 'advanced' and require perhaps a little more comfort than the outrage/nitro.

Personally the Outrage is less fun than the Nitro. You'll enjoy yourself more on the river w/ a Nitro.

I used to think hull speed sucked on the Nitro (well it's considerably slower than the Ocoee, Rival, OUtrage -) but I realized for all the complaining I did, I didnt really paddle it well... as my paddling improves, 'Hull speed' isnt so much the issue.

Good luck. (oh, be *sure* to try the Ocoee if you can get your hands on one)

M.