C-Forum

My wife and I have been paddling a whitewater tandem oc for about a year now. About a month ago I bought a Dagger Cascade and we both love it. Now I want to get her a similar type C1 but match her size. She is 5'6" and 110 lbs.

Would a Dagger Atom be good for her?

Any other suggestions?

Also can I get hip huggers for my Cascade? Where?

Thanks,
Matt

I paddle an Atom but I don't know of any women who now paddle one. It is a heavy boat for its size. The Atom is a sharp chined boat that turns quickly but can also be turned quickly by the current. I would reccommend that you try one in some class II/III water before you commit.

Jim

Where are you located? I have a boat that may work for her that I'm willing to sell cheap . Not as new as the Atom, but stable and fast.

Regarding the Atom, she may have trouble rolling it (personally I think the Atom is one of the most difficult boats to roll due to its flat, wide deck). Other than that it's a good cruising boat, especially at her weight (it's going to be VERY hard for her to stern squirt it though ).

I'm not sure who currently has the Dagger Hip grabbers-the last place I ordered mine from was NRS, and they had a few, but that was 4 years ago or so. I used the same one as the atom and retrofitted it to a Cascade. It took a little tweaking (it was an older cascade), but works well now.

Search the archives for Vann Evans write up on his and Laura's matching glass Atoms made with permission by class V.

I was fortunate enough to have had Laura as an instructor last May for a novice canoe course, and she is a great teacher. She and Vann return a lot to the sport, so I pay attention to their input when they offer it. I hope their evaluation of the Atom is useful to you.

Bill

Matt,

The Atom is one of the best C1's ever made for fun Class 2-3-4 boating . It is stable and relatively comfortable. It rolls easily in my experinece. It would be one of the better choices for a beginner C1. I sold mine to a beginner C1er, and he did very well in the boat.

Bruce

Everyone,

Thanks for all of the info.


Adam,

Unfortunately I'm down in Dallas Texas. A long ways from NY.

What boat is it that you have that would be good for her?

Matt

I'm not sure what Adam has in mind, but I'd recommend a Hornet - it's a scaled down Cascade (1" narrower) and about 25# (glass/kev). Adam has at lleast one of those... Seriously consider a glass boat - the lessened weight could make a huge difference for a smaller paddler.

The Atom is well regarded, but be aware of the edges. I love edges, but they are not always friendly for a beginner.

I have a Noah Aeroquatic kayak (not sure if I spelled that correctly) that was factory converted to a C1 (when I looked at it i thought it was originally a C1, and actually works well as one). To my knowledge it was stored inside it's whole life, and i believe it as the plastic isn't really faded at all and seems to be in good shape. It is, however, PINK. Or at least light purple . It's about 10' long, relatively fast, and stable, and a bit lighter than a lot of today's plastic boats (still not glass light though). Just like the cascade you can't do the latest tricks in it, but it will certainly front and side surf well, and rolls really easily. I'd be willing to let it go for what I paid for it (as I'd feel guilty asking for more, given the minimal outfitting tweaking I did on it), which is $150.00.

I'll second Scott's suggestion of a glass boat, but with the disclaimer that in general I feel glass boats are better-lighter, smoother in the water, and are easier to repair than plastic. If you take care of them, you may not even have to repair them (learn to miss the rocks...). If you want a boat to beat on as you would plastic however, and you will become familiar with glass work .

Good luck in your search!

and has a bunch of C-1's. There is a big difference in the Cascade and the Atom as far as stability goes and the Atom is really edgie compaired to the Cascade. If you are ever here in East Tennessee my son and I have a Inferred C-1. G force 5/8 C-1, Atom C-1, Cascade C1, Hydra C-2, about 6 glass C-1's and 30 something real boats, you are welcome to try any of them out.

I have a bunch of c-1s including an Atom. The Atom is heavy and dificult to manuver (compared to other c-boats). If you get your wife an Atom you may end up paddling alone a lot, I doubt she will like it for long. For someone who is 110 pounds there are a lot of choices. Wave Sport made a lot of good baots that make nice c-1s, I'd suggest the WS XXX as a c-1. The XXX should be easy to find and cheap. I paddle the Forplay at 185 or so, and it might also make her a good c-1, but it's bigger than she needs. Not the Atom, heavy, difficult to roll, I'd say there's a god chance she'll soon grow to hate it.

I still paddle my Atom even though I am getting more into open boating now. I find it a bit heavy, very slow, but very easy to roll. I weigh a lot more than your wife so maybe for her it would feel faster and lighter. The edges take a little getting used to but it is a fun boat. I plan to keep it.

The Noah above sounds like the best bet to me for a beginner. I had a similar boat at one time and it was great. Unfortunately I pinned it at River's End on a low water Yough run (6"-8"?) and it broke completely in half while I was still in it trying to figure out what to do (glass boat, breakaway cockpit, I was a beginner with great balance but no roll and I popped the skirt--big mistake!).

The Hornet is lots of fun too, VERY fast and VERY light but the hull is so round that I felt like I was paddling a beach ball, I couldn't really feel the water.

Good luck! A long, lightweight, non-racing C1 is hard to find.

Angie

For what it's worth, i'm another woman who currently paddles an Atom. It was my first solo boat (after 12 years of tandem oc); three years later, I still love it. I would say that if your wife liked her C1 experience in a Cascade, then she would probably really enjoy the Atom. The edges did throw me at first, especially in bigger water, but they're fun on the eddy turns. I find it easy to roll (and hard to surf). It's heavy when I carry it but it feels fast in the water.

Laurie

I have paddled the Atom since it first was available-I've had 4 of them. Still own 2 myself and my wife(Laura) has also paddled them for a long time and still has one. I personally think the Atom is the best plastic cruising/play c-1 available ever. HJowever, as many people have suggested above, there are differences of opinion.

The boat is heavy, has sharp chines and is no longer made. However, it also surfs like a dream, is predictable , stable and comfortable. I think one of the major problems with the atom is that the factory outfitting puts the seat pedestal too far forward, making it somewhat bow heavy and that can lead to lots of other problems.

That being said, the Atom is not necessarily the boat I would recommend for a first c-1 for anyone weighing 110 pounds. The Cascade is more stable, but considerably larger in size, weight and volume. i think the boat I would recommend is the Hornet, designed by Bob Putnam and built by Kaz at Millbrook Boats.

The Hornet is essentially a trimmed Cascade-it kept the good stability, good rocker(surfing capability),good speed and is considerably lighter in weight. It is narrower and has both bow and stern decks somewhat flattened. It is easier to roll than either the Atom or the Cascade.

In our attempts to find a better c-1(lighter and smaller)we have tried numerous conversions-Noah AQ, Dagger Redline, Dagger GTX,
dagger Animas, Phonex slipper as well as all of ther other plastic c-1's available over the last 15 years. Ultimately, the Atom is still the best all around plastic c-1.

However, we were still not satisfied. After Dagger discontinued the Atom as a production model, we obtained permission to use the Atom as a plug for a new mold and produce a very limited number of glass Atoms. Victor Barnett of Class V boats in Chattanooga built them for us and did a wonderful job. Ultimately, the glass Atom is the best c-1 I've ever paddled. Unfortunately, they are not available at this time. we are still trying to work out a solution in order to have more boats made.

Vann Evans

The Hornet - loved by small people everywhere!
[img]http://www.gis.net/~johnkaz/hornet.jpg[/img]

And then there's the new Amoeba, by Larry Norman, I think.

[img]http://www.wwslalom.org/misc/amoeba.jpg[/img]

P.S. to Kaz! Save this Amoeba picture and put it on your site instead of the oversized one you've got now. 1/6 the file size.

Everyone,

Thanks for all of the comments. For now, we decided we want a plastic boat and will try to find an Atom. In the future, I think a Hornet would be great for her.

Matt