C-Forum

Which canoe is best, Prodigy X or Ourtrage X, or some other?
I boated Sunburst II for 10 years, and then Dagger Encore for six. The Dagger is beyond repair. Here are the relevant facts:
215 pounds, with gear on.
I boat mostly technical water, because Idaho is in a drought.
Roll is barely a skirmish, i.e, not close to combat.
III is not a challenge, IV makes me work, and I avoid most all V.
We have no dealers to try these boats.
A friend just bought the Prodigy X, and it looks like the write ups,- manuverable, stable, and wet. The shallow depth and little rocker concern me. (I think the Encore is more manuveable, but certainly less stable.)
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
JKL

Check out the esquif boats.

I would reccomend heading to an Eastern US fest where you can demo a boat, but I think you would probably enjoy either one, though after a year of paddling I felt the outrage x a little slow.

I paddle with folks who have a Nitro and Detonator. I am not favoarably impressed.

I do not like the Prodigy much and would lean towards the Outrage between the two. I am just under 200 pounds and would not even consider the X in either boat. That is too much boat for anyone under 230 unless it is just for self support trips. I paddle an Ocoee and one of the people who helped me think that boat would be big enough for me, is a friend in NH who is 230+ and paddles one. You can do so much more in a small boat! Mostly have more fun.... Let me say it again, please don't get an X. And in my usual broken record form, look at the Millbrook Defiant or Rhumba. I have a Defiant and my next boat will be a Rhumba or Spark..... or a Zoom X. Now, yes I know that Esquif does not make a Zoom X but if they do, I might buy one. The Zoom is, IMO, a bit too small for my weight (and height of 6'3").

Hi JKL

The Zoom is probably a touch small for you, but would be worth checking out if you get the chance. It's great for technical creeking. I previously paddled a Detonator and it was a great boat to learn with (very predictable, awesome secondary stability, very forgiving), but really slow. The Zoom is faster, edgier (also way less stable), carves better and I think is a much better boat, but I only weigh 150lbs. The Outrage is a good, stable, boat, but I prefer shorter, more manuverable designs. It comes from my unfortunate history as a kayaker paddling 7ft long playboats.

I think Jan Dettmar paddles a Prodigy X down some pretty hairy stuff - often on self-support trips. He'd be a good person to chat with and is in your part of the world (well sort of - Victoria, B.C.). Maybe PM him through the board.

Back to work

NZMatt

might want to give esquif another try. The little I paddled the detonator and nitro, I didn't like them either. But I am thinking of the vertiage and the vertiage X. They look pretty stable, likely paddle solo "like a real canoe" (traditional canoe feel of stability and tracking) rather than like the nitro.

I just invested in a Zoom and at 215, 6'2", find it awsome....very dry, and maneuverable to almost the extreme. I am trusting that as I get more practice in it I'll figure out the twitchieness. Once I do, it will make an excellent creek boat. Also believe it to be as fast as my "long" boat, the Mohawk Shaman. Definitely must be paddled aggressively. Rolls almost too easily, i.e. if I flip on purpose or thru pushing the envelope it sometimes seems it wants to roll up on its own...and I haven't figured out on how to take advantage of that...need some pool sessions with someone more experienced than me to show how...itherwise I go thru my Bob Foote set up routine which, to me, seems to be slo-mo.

Ocoee, Ocoee, Ocoeeeeeee!

might want to give esquif another try. The little I paddled the detonator and nitro, I didn't like them either. But I am thinking of the Vertige and the Vertige X. They look pretty stable, likely paddle solo "like a real canoe" (traditional canoe feel of stability and tracking) rather than like the nitro.

I paddle a Vertige-X and I have it outfitted for solo paddling. It has a flat bottom with soft chines which makes it extremely stable and predictable. It's also the best surfing machine that I've ever owned. On the downside, it's a heavy boat and doesn't turn fast enough for steep creeking.

If you're thinking of steep creeking then I would highly recommend the Outrage. Sorry, Alan B, but the Ocoee is way too edgy for me. I have enough of a problem negotiating the rapids without worrying about catching one of those sharp edges.

Jim

JKL-

I've got an Outrage (not an X) that has not seen the water yet as I am trapped at work in another state.....maybe you can demo this boat sometime and critique my feeble instal of mike yee outfitting. Bought with the intention of learning something new--hopefully soon. Are you anywhere near N. Idaho?

I was shopping used and I'm not too fussy, but I ended with an Outrage, and I like it. I'm also about 210lbs, and I'm glad I didn't go for an X! An Esquif Nitro might also be a good one.

Haven't seen as many Bells around to compare, but don't be scared of the Outrage at your weight.

If/when I trade up the Outrage, I'll probably look Ocoee or Viper 12 (or Zoom X).

JKL, where are you?


P.

The max weight listed for the Outrage is 190, and in my experience that results in an acceptably dry hull. I'm running an X now and had a nice run down class IV-V Meadow Run in Ohiopyle, in fact was glad I took it. Turns no problem, but the bit extra volume helps your speed and floats a bit better on the white boily stuff. Still get filled up, but the boat handles real good full, probably the best of any boat I've paddled. Essential considering Meadow's must punch sequences of holes. Don't discount the X, its as hi-po as you'd care to get; there's no needing a trade-up.