C-Forum

Sometimes when I'm going straight while "paddling against the arc" (the technique where you lean the boat to your onside a bit, then paddle using only forward strokes with no correction) I find my boat (OC1) veering towards my onside.

I know this is caused because the PATA technique builds up a wave at the bow on the offside.

My question is, is there any technique that will get me going straight again after I've started to turn to my onside, other than just muscling the boat with a (very) hard stern draw?

Play with boat tilt. It's been a long time since I've spent time in an OC, but my Acrobat tracks the straightest when tilted to the offside.

Once you've started turning to your onside a quick stern pry or sweep will set you back on an offside lean, follow through with cross forwards. Another way to control the size of the circle you are paddling on is to vary the distance you paddle from the boat. Paddling close to or under the boat will give you a tighter circle which you can open up by stroking farther away from the boat.

Tom Foster's, "Catch Every Eddy...Surf Every Wave", is an excellent resource for paddling on the circle. If you want a copy of the book please email tfwhitewaterathotmaildotcom. Tom will highlight paddling on the circle in a new instructional WW DVD, out in a month or so.

For those not familiar with Tom Foster, his technique is the same as that used by slalom racers. Emphasis is on forward and cross forward strokes to attain maximum efficiency with only strategic use of correction strokes. One of the drills he teaches is to paddle a straight line using forward and cross forward strokes. Start with three or four forwards and then change the lean to the offside with a quick pry or J, follow with two or three cross forwards then kick the lean back to the onside and repeat.

The forward and cross forward are the two most commonly used strokes and deserve a lot of pond practice to dial in muscle memory for perfect excecution. I see many open boaters get into an inefficient stroke/pry style because their forward stroke is too long (it should end at the knees) and they haven't learned to commit to their offside and cross forwards. Hope this helps, I'm not ACA certified but I've spent many quality hours learning from Tom and taking it to the pond.

Nessmuk wrote:Sometimes when I'm going straight while "paddling against the arc" (the technique where you lean the boat to your onside a bit, then paddle using only forward strokes with no correction) I find my boat (OC1) veering towards my onside.

I know this is caused because the PATA technique builds up a wave at the bow on the offside.

My question is, is there any technique that will get me going straight again after I've started to turn to my onside, other than just muscling the boat with a (very) hard stern draw?

A boat that turns toward the onside with NO stroke corrections except a lean is pretty unusual. It seems to me that a little less lean would reduce the lean-induced turn and, in a pinch, a lean to the offside. Alternately, why not a sweep rather than a stern draw?

I guess if you are really good you can paddle straight but I've always had to alternate onside and offside carving to aproximate straight.
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To make the arc as large as possible, move your forward stroke out to the side for more of a sweep and reduce the lean. Eventualy you destroy the carve and go to the other side of the boat.
Like Heidi said it's good pond practice but I rarely try to go straight on a river. Instead I try to set my carve to bring me where I want to go.

Tommy

Heidi wrote:Once you've started turning to your onside a quick stern pry or sweep will set you back on an offside lean, follow through with cross forwards.

My apologies and a correction. I incorrectly stated that a quick stern pry will...what I meant to say was a quick stern draw. I didn't hear it until I got on a pond and said it outloud to myself. As I was carving circles and admonishing myself for not having picked up on that before posting I was also struck by the fact that that post had been viewed 200 times and no one corrected me.

Please, I am 'grasshopper' compared to most, and especially amongst the legends and the exceptionally skilled/experienced paddlers that visit this forum. If I state something that is obviously flawed please know that I would, and I think the community at large would benefit from hearing about it. It's too bad that with all the paddling talent out there that there aren't more discussions of technique and practice. It's also too bad that when someone posts a question about technique that it goes by without much response. Maybe it is that folks are just more comfortable chatting about boats and beer.

I find that differant designs will call for differant techniques although the basics will be similar. THe rule seems to be to stay over your knees and butt as you will notice when watching slolam paddlers. I have seen Olympic paddlers paddling converted Dagger kayaks with that classic erect,chest out, slalom position.

If you try to paddle my converted Dagger GTX (8.1) just from the bow it will wear you out, However, the combo of speed from good forward strokes and a good off side lean and on side stern pry will really aid in ferrying, etc. Plus there are several angles on these newer designs that will effect efficency, remember the Perception Slasher which allowed many paddlers to become "trout counters".

THe slolam boats are more designed for bow strokes. I have limited experiance to date, however, these boats are wider behind the seat and longer making them fast and stable relative to what most of us are converting. The old Gyromax is an example of a plastic slolam design with a bow forward idea. I am quickly becoming a fan on glass boats that are actually designed as a c-1. YOu can really lean on your off side confidently.

As to the last poster. There is no harm done. Also, you will see that the people in this community, C Boats.net are very capable of discussing many more things than beer, etc. so lighten up, please. HOwever, if anyone as a new micro brew to discuss, let us know.



Chuck Incognito from Parts, Unknown

I'll echo some of Chuck's thoughts...different boats call for different strokes, very literally. If anyone is nearby wants to C what I mean, let me know, and I'll being the following down to Glens Falls (flat river water), or that takeout of the Sacanadaga:
1) Fanatic II slalom boat. Most strokes Heidi references work very well, though a few others are possible due to design and ability to cut the stern edge in, among other things
2) Wheelboy or Groove. Try paddling THIS like a slalom boat and you're in for a BIG surprise:). Long strokes are out...it's all about setting the boat on an edge to go straight (if you don't want to do TOO many correction strokes)
3) Master cut Acrobat-coming from a wheelboy this will seem like a different world...just ask the folks that tried it out at the NB armada (even Seth:) ).
And, if you're daring:
4) Oxygen. You CAN'T paddle this thing normally. I use my "modified Groove stroke"...shorter and much more balanced in all directions
5) Ace III Wildwater boat. Admittedly one of the "more stable" wildwater boats. I use the term "stable" very loosely here. Turning strokes are tough, corrective strokes rarely need. It's made to go FAST, straight. Oh, and flip over really well .

So, I'd say for some boats the technique you mentioned Heidi (meaning the "incorrect" one) MAY actually be the correct one!

If you search back through the forum you'll find many, many posts on technique, though more are always welcome here. With CBoating, like everything else, the more you paddle and know, the more you realize you do not know. Other than perhaps someone like EJ I'm not sure there really is an "expert" on paddling...we're getting too specialized. Davey Hearn, whom I have tremendous respect for (moreso after our clinic) can walk you through any slalom boat technique (and improvement of your technique) imaginable...but forget about today's hotest "play" move, unless you're talking about surfing:). The "major" CBoat squirt designs are based on his boats, and credited to he and Jon Lugbill...but you can forget about mystery move instruction as well. That said I firmly believe that EVERY boater can benefit from such specialized instruction (it does all cross over, of course). But, there is no one "expert" to my knowledge...if there is, please let me know

This idea of opening up the power circle using a stern draw is very well demonstrated in a 1997 instructional video called "From Here to There Canoe Basics" produced by Joe Holt and Bob Beazley. I believe this video is still available. In addition to this concept it very clearly illustrates a lot of techniques for open canoes.

Also, my favorite micro brew is Victory "Hopdevil"

Lil' D, actually I was referring to the stern draw as a way to destroy the onside carve/circle and change the lean to the offside. Since it affectively shifts the opposing force on the bow, I would like to see how it is applied to open the circle up.

Chuck and Adam, cool, I hadn't thought about some of those dynamics. Adam I am convinced, well almost, I think I must come play with some of those boats of yours for better understanding

As for boats and micro brew...well now we're talking my favorite things to play with and my favorite beverage, something I'm sure I have incommon with more than a few boaters Chuck, my use of that emoticon was tongue-in-cheek, because there was mention of boats and beer the last time I posted. However, I still stand by my comment that folks seem less inclinded to chime in on technique; which is totally understandable given all the variables that come into play.

Yeah, I drew from recent memory and searched 'technique' before I whined about input and I'd say there are a number of posts to support what I said and yeah, same could be said for the flip side depending how you look at it. Not a criticism, just a little whining for more. I spent a good part of Monday paddling with my eyes closed, I'm grateful to Kaz and CBoats for that and other great tips. Cheers~Heidi