C-Forum

I was told by someone in the outfitters shop at Zoar Outdoor, that the Madriver outrage had been made a little bit narrower sometime in the period it has been produced. I have a friend with an outrage, and love it. does anyone know when this change may have happened? Or if it really did? I have written to madriver a couple of times over the past three weeks but have nt received an answer.
-nate

I paddle an Outrage, and see alot on the river; haven't noticed a difference between newer and older boats.

But there is a difference between the wood-gunnel and vinyl-gunnel versions.

The wood-gunnel versions are noticeably fuller in the bow and stern; I've heard this is because the vinyl gunnels MR uses are "off the shelf", and not specifically designed for the Outrage.

The wood-gunnel version has the shape as originally designed by Tom Foster.

I paddle outrage and ocoee. I bought my second outrage 2 years ago to replace an older one that was damaged. Both outrages have vinyl gunnels. The new one is not quite as smooth in the transition from flat to leaned over on it's side as the older version was. I still feel the outrage is a very predictable, forgiving, maneuverable & reliable boat.

The difference that I found is the gunnels on the newer (less smooth) one has a pretty counitnuious curve from centerline, bow to stern. The older(smoother) one was essentially straight between the thwarts. The handling was different enough that I tried to bend/flattnen the gunnels on the new one. It didn't seem to want to tuck in well though. I decided to stop and not risk doing more harm than good to a brand new boat. I figured I might end up kinking it rather than getting a long flat.

There may be other shape differences as well.

I have been paddling an outrage with wood gunwhales and prefer it over the vinyl. Thank you though. I haven't been able to get a straight answer out of the manufacturers, in fact they don't even respond. I am also going to try and find someone who has a new boat with wood gunwhales, because the two boats are noticeably different.
Nate

Very interesting. I bought an Outrage with vinyl gunnels about a year ago. I love it. A fellow paddler has one with wooden gunnels and sometimes looking at it I thought the bow looked bigger but I just figured it was my imagination or maybe it was just that the 'Outrage' logo was printed bigger. I can't imagine liking this boat any more than I already do but I'll have to give the wooden gunnel version a try just to feel the difference.

Angie

FS: Solo WW open boat
Posted by Peter <Peter.Farr@Sympatico.ca>
(Wednesday, October 12, 2005, at 9:24 a.m.)



Mad River Outrage X solo WW open canoe for sale. More details at http://peter.lpi-solutions.com/Outrage4Sale.html.

Contact Peter at 416/236-0981.


http://peter.lpi-solutions.com/Outrage4Sale.html

In response to Pat F's post about having bought a new outrage 2 years ago and having it be different from his old one. How old was the old one? It's possible that the model I have been using came out after the change, I'm not sure.

Hi Nate
The Outrage you have been paddling with wood gunwales was built in Vermont 1999. The Henry's sold the company in 1998 but I understand that they were still building some of their boats in Vermont in 1999 - then production was moved south with the company that purchased Mad River.
Dale

Spoke with Tom Foster regarding this thread. The Outrage mold has never changed and is to the spec of designers Tom Foster and Jim Henry. As has been stated, the vinyl railed Outrages made by Mad River were not to spec. due to the use of a generic deck plate that reduced the flare in the bow by drawing in the gunwales. Flare in the bow gives it more rocker and lends itself to a dryer ride. Although, Tom is quick to say that running dry is as much if not more a matter of skill as boat design. In 2000 Jim Henry made a jig so that wood gunwales could be bent to spec. however, it does not appear that the vinyl deck plate was corrected.

Comparing my 2003 vinyl railed Outrage with the 1994 wood railed/ Kevlar prototype Outrage, the Fluidity, of which only three were made, the difference in flare is noticeable. Having paddled both of these boats a good deal I would agree that there is a big difference in performance as is true of the difference between royalex and Kevlar.

I haven’t spent enough time in the wood railed royalex Outrage to compare its nuances to the vinyl, at least not enough to go so far as to say the differences are profound, as is stated in the comments section of OC-1 Rec Boats Index. Would be interested in hearing what specifically those profound differences are.

Thank you, that's pretty much what I was looking for, that there was no change in the mold of the boat.
I don't know how the wood gunwhales specifically differ from the vinyl, because the vinyl boat I used only once and it had poor outfitting. The only difference I could notice immediately was that the bow and stern was larger (fuller) on the wood gunwhaled boat, while it was narrower on the vinyl.

Copied from the OC Rec Boats Index on C-Boats: <These boats vary profoundly between vinyl and wood gunnels. Tom Foster and Jim Henry designed 'em to be dry, but the mrc management used 'stock' vinyl decks which deformed the intended flare the only 'true' rages sport wood.>

Can anyone please shed some light on the source of this comment?

The use of the 'profound' makes it a strong comment and would really like to hear the specifics that support it. Thanks

I paddle both a wood gunwale Outrage-X and a vinyl gunwale Outrage. I thought that the vinyl gunwale Outrage would be wetter than the Outrage-X, especially since it was a shorter boat. It turned out that the Outrage was just as dry if not dryer than the Outrage-X. The top of the vinyl gunwale boat may be narrower than the wooden one but the bottom of the two boats are about the same. Since it's the bottom of the boat that's in contact with the water all the time I can't find all that much difference in the performance or the dryness of the two boats.

By the way, I installed a bilge pump in my new Outrage and I love it. Now my kayaking friends don't have to wait for me to stop and dump water every chance I get on the steep creek runs.

Jim

Hey Jim, If you don't mind my asking, how much weight do you put in your Outrages? Also when you use the Standard vs. the X?
I've been wondering if my 190+ lbs and the 20 or so lbs of junk I carry might be too much for my Outrage in heavier water?
Thinking the X might carry my weight a little better?

Thanks,
Tommy

Tommy

I weigh almost 190 lbs. I find that the Outrage is just as dry as the Outrage-X. My airbags also fill up more space in the Outrage so a swamped boat isn't as sluggish. I installed a bilge pump so I no longer need room in the boat to operate a bail bucket. The Outrage also has the advantage of being more maneuverable which is a big plus on creek runs.

I now keep my Outrage-X stored in Flagstaff, Ariz. and only use it for Grand Canyon trips.

Jim

Jim,

That last line was absolutely quote-worthy! Life sounds good!

By the way, I still have your pictures from the Petawawa, Beaver, ect. Not to mention a whole cannister of your slides. The preliminary layout work is finally drawing to a close for me, so all of the photos and slides are going to return to your house within the next few months (sorry for the delay).

Alden