pfds and rolls

[yarnellboat]

I missed my roll yesterday in my Outrage, which isn't unheard of, I'm new to the idea of rolling and haven't practiced much, but I was in a calm section, took my time, and still didn't quite get up.

I was wearing a different pfd for the first time. Normally I've been wearing I high volume pfd with lots of floatation around the shoulders. Yesterday I was wearing a little ww pfd with all the floatation down by my gut.

Could it be that my big pfd was help me set up for a good roll, even that I was pushing down on all that floatation around my chest and shoulders, and that the new pfd has thrown my off?

Another theory to test at the pool some time.

P.

[ezwater]

PFDs can hurt you either way. A high volume PFD helps some people get well up into the setup position. But a high volume PFD also picks up more water and has more drag as you come out of the water.

Long ago in ancient time, I had two Flotherchoc PFDs, one sized medium, the other large. I was so svelte at that time that I would wear the medium on everything up through the Ocoee, but for new, difficult stuff, I would wear the large Flotherchoc over the medium, doubling floatation to about 26 pounds.

One weekend I planned to go up for my first run of New River Gorge. To sharpen up, I paddled the Ocoee wearing only the medium Flotherchoc, and had several occasions, planned and unplanned, to confirm that my c-1 roll was working well.

Then at New River Gorge, anticipating possible swims, I wore BOTH Flotherchocs. I flipped four times, and swam twice. I noticed that with both PFDs on, rolling was distinctly more DIFFICULT. With both jackets on, I was picking up a lot of water and my torso was dragging more when rolling. Since then, I have always chosen PFDs which pick up minimum water and which are low-drag.

Now, just as some say no boat is "hard to roll," some will say that if your roll is technically sound, you should be able to roll wearing chain mail and a cotton diving outfit. But my recommendation is, put your technical focus on getting into starting position with a modern, low drag PFD, and avoid mult--tube high volume life jackets. If you want extra floatation, get a PFD which allows insertion of extra foam for difficult runs. Don't rely on PFD floatation to assist your roll, because as you improve, extra floatation PFDs may be a liability rather than an asset.

[Mike W.]

I remember sometimes adding a scull towards the bow to help finish my OC roll when I was not quite up at the end of my brace.

There are at least two schools of thought on roll practice: 1-dress in the pool like you would on the river or 2-no helmet or life-jacket in the pool. Both have merit, if you practice like you play then you know what to expect. But if you don't have the added bouancy in the pool, your technique should be better.

[Jan_dettmer]

Pat, it is all about the technique. I doubt that the vest was the problem in your case. It's more likely that you were prob rusty as you said you did not practise much lately.

Kepp working on your roll untill it becomes very smooth and clean. (and independent of minor changes in your equipment)

Are you coming to the island for some winter boating or what?

Cheers, Jan

[chuck naill]

WHen I concentrate on my upper body and paddle postion and all the other stuff I start missing roles. When I think hip snap only, I have been told that I have a very fast role. I am consistantly haveing to remind myself of this point.

However, because rolling an open boat is more deliberate, I think that that slowness gives us more time to think about all of the mechanics.

Obviously a "high float" keeps you more bouyant.

Chuck

[bearboater]

this i doubt will help, but its what i found works best for me. instead of focusing on myself, i focus on what the balde of the paddle is doing. because i know that if i can get it flaton the surface of the water, and push off for that moment when i snap, i know that it will sweep out, and i am im a low brace. I found this helpful when i got my race boat, because the roll is alot different that my fink or any open boat, because you're so far under the water, and so i could'nt get my shoulders as square to my blade in front of them, but it had to be in front of my body about 5 inches, and that made alot of difference.
cheers
-isaac
i usually practice with a pfd, simply because its what the real situation will be like. but i learned without one.

[Rumplestiltskin]

Maybe it is more about too much "gut" rather than too much PFD! Focus on trimming down your "personal roll" this winter and I bet the "river roll" takes care of itself.

Missing rolls in the New River Gorge is not unusual. The much higher volume of water (compared to the Ocoee) makes that a powerful, mountain river.

It is called "Greyhound Bus Stopper" because that hole is big enough to do just that. Nothing like a really big piece of whitewater to show you the weak points in your paddling skill set.

[chuck naill]

Rumple

Good to see you Sunday in BC and thanks for noticing the Sorbet Atom. Send me an email sometime so we can stay caught up. THe rivers are coming up over hear.

Chuck

[Tiggy]

Heres the trick:
You need to keep your head down the whole time. Scrape your nose on each gunwale, it is your head that screws up the roll.
Think about a log, roll a log in the water is not hard if it is perfectly cylindical. Add some branches or even one human size branch and it is difficult to roll. I think this is a good analogy to your head position when rolling.
Just set up and keep your head down almost scraping your nose on each gunwale.
Hip snap is super important. Try to snap your hips, then low brace the rest of the way. It is actually a two step that seems like one because it happens pretty fast.
It is identical to a low brace except for the hip snap.
We have alot of weight in our heaDS, I actually have rocks up there, it manipulates the hull alot and its very important that you bring your head up last and after the boat has been righted. Now then....what to do with all that water!!!!
I can roll a c-1 without a paddle. it is all hip snap and keeping low.

[Tiggy]

Maybe it is more about too much "gut" rather than too much PFD! Focus on trimming down your "personal roll" this winter and I bet the "river roll" takes care of itself.

Missing rolls in the New River Gorge is not unusual. The much higher volume of water (compared to the Ocoee) makes that a powerful, mountain river.

It is called "Greyhound Bus Stopper" because that hole is big enough to do just that. Nothing like a really big piece of whitewater to show you the weak points in your paddling skill set.

Cant the gut be considered ballast? Thats my lame excuse for having it!! lol