C-Forum

I currently paddle a MR Outrage and a Quake.

I've paddled the Quake quite alot recently, and today i got back into the Outrage for the first time in a while- and the Outrage felt decidely "barge-like"!

I love the responsiveness of the Quake, especially on creeks, but on less creeky stuff I find that the slowness of the Quake makes it more difficult to attain, power onto surfing waves, ferry, etc.

I love the speed of the Outrage, but would like a boat that's edgier, and more responsive.

So I'm looking for a boat somewhere between the two- a responsive OC1 that plays well, but that still has decent speed.

This boat would typically be used on Cl 3-4 rivers (like the Cheat, Deerfield Dryway and Ocoee), with the Quake staying as my main creek boat (especially on the more abusive stuff).

I'm thinking an Ocoee or Mohawk Viper would fit the bill- any opinions?

I have not paddled the Ocoee, but it sounds like it would be what you are looking for, especially since the Mohawk Viper is not currently in production---and most people who have them probably won't want to sell them as I've heard that people love them.
Maybe check out a couple of the esquif boats. I have paddled the Detonator, and thought it was very responsive, but very slow--however I'm not sure how that would compare to the Quake--Maybe the Nitro?
Or the Spark is incredibly fast, but not as stable as the Outrage. Definately check out the spark for creeks.

Nate

I had been paddling an Outrage as well,and traded for a Nitro.
I've had some of the same sort or issues.
I was thinking about a spark,cause I love my supelight Defiant.
But didn't think it would take the abuse it would most certainly receive.
I decided to order an Esquif Zephyr as have a few others,hopefully we will be able to give ya a rundown on them soon.
--The Spark in Twin Tex might be sweet
Shawn

If Evergreen's new boat does come out somewhere between a Prelude and an Ocoee, that might be what you're looking for.

The Zephyer has also been mentioned, and I 'd love to know how it compares to an Outrage for speed and responsiveness. You might also consider the Zoom or the Tareau by Esquif.

P.

thanks for the input.

WRT to the shorter boats mentioned (Tareau, Zoom, and Detonator), how do they compare speed-wise to the Viper/Ocoee, or to the Quake?

I am a little reluctant to go with one of these really short boats, because it seems that they would be in the same category, speed-wise, as the Quake.

I believe Clipper may be building the Viper now....(OC1 that is, not C1). More info as I figure it out!

http://www.clippercanoes.com/category.php?cat_id=7

I have not paddled a viper too often but it is a nice boat. The Ocoee is faster than the Tareau, Zoom and Detonator. I think it would be close to the same speed as the Viper. If you are 170 pounds or less the Zoom would be a good choice. I have paddled the Spark for slalom races and it is excellent for that but as a river running play boat, it has some limitations. This past summer on the Alberton Gorge (big class lll) in Montana, I traded back and forth with my friend Dave who owns a Spark (I own 2 Ocoees and a Defiant) and the Spark does not do anything as well as the Ocoee except go faster. I would like to own a Spark and would use it for river running as well as racing, but for side surfing, front surfing, back surfing and eddie turns, the Ocoee is the boat. If you keep the rigging minimal and have wood gunnels, the Ocoee is pretty light. The Detonator is a good surf machine on a big glassy.... I like that totally flat bottom but think the double chines are just soft, round chines with creases... and it is a heavy pig. I am a broken record on this subject but the Ocoee is the best traditional OC-1 out there. And last but not least, Millbrook boats will take a beating and come back for more.... don't rule out glass. So I don't repeat myself here, look back at one of my earlier postings on this subject regarding Defiant vs Lochsa.

Try a prodigy. Still very fast, better turning than an Outrage, looks good too.

Rob

Hi Chris,

My first whitewater boat was an outrage x- I loved it's stability. Anyway, I was completely happy with it till I tried a Viper 12. I have demoed an Outrage and found it more responsive than than the X. I know so many people who love their Nitros- I own a Blast, in both boats I don't feel the speed I like in either boat- I had owned a Skeeter and SpanishFly, so I know that even though the boats are short they dont feel like your having to push the water out of the way.

For me the 195 the Viper 11 was noticeably slower than the Viper 12, I'm assuming due to displacement more than 1' in length. Adam is right about Clipper making Vipers.

Are you coming to the SouthEast any time soon?

Bill

In terms of Speed the Zephyr (only a short) was faster than the Nitro. A boat I thought I would never like-based on photos - is the Vertige, but I was amazed at its speed it paddled as fast as a Viper 12. I also was luck enough to have a friend who owned a Defiant which is another great boat.

The Evergreen looks like it will be a nice boat, but I don't think you would find a noticeable difference between the quake and it.

thanks for all the info guys.

I had been leaning toward the Ocoee, and I think Alan B pushed me over the edge.

I have only heard good things about that boat.

Coincidently, company bonuses came out today-

So I called Jersey Paddler and ordered an Ocoee!

Now I just have to wait 6-8 weeks...

PS-

bill- i expect to be W. Va way for a week sometime in may, and maybe a few days in Tenn in June or July.

How'd the pedestal work out for you?

Chris

Good for you! You won't regret it!!

Hi Chris,

I think you wouldn't have gone wrong with either boat- I had heard the new Ocoee paddles significantly diffferent than the Dagger model. I kind of wish I had picked up a Viper 12 b4- but I'm hoping I'll like my new boat equally as much and hope the durability is a reality.

Keep me posted on your WV trip. I'm trying to get back into paddling for the year- I've had an interesting last few months.

Anyway, your pedestal went to Martin, there was a more well used one at a SC shop so I had that mailed to me. I currently don't have it in a boat- A local shop has a Mamba I was tempted to put it in, but I'm trying to hold off for the Fatboy, The mamba floor would push in easily with just hand pressure so I would think the hull would need to be reinforced for c1ing- though it looks like a nice boat to convert -