C-Forum

Ok, I'm finally comfortably stuck in my C1 - I don't get sucked out when I go upside-down ... largely thanks to my new lap-belt. What do I spend my time learning in my pool sessions first?

I have the traditional front roll almost down... It's shaky right now... so I'll continue to work that. What next? back deck roll? bow stall? cartwheel? Any other party trix?

Thanks, boize.

Good question msims, you're just a few days ahead of me - I picked up my first C-1 (WS Score) last night, and may have it in the pool by Friday. But what to do?

P.

Do whatever is fun!.
Try to handroll. It's easier than you might think.
Try to go upside down, pass your paddle over the boat, resort yourself and roll up.
Go upside down. throw paddle away and paddle with your hands to the paddle. Grab it and roll up.

Try a sternsquirt. Paddle hard, edge offside hard and do a huge pry. level off the edge once the stern slices down.

Try a double pump. Good instructions on Chris Jooses site:

http://www.chrisj.winisp.net/articles/Articles.htm

Try a bow stall. Key is to use your wake to push your bow down.

Just for fun try off-side roll.
Switch hands and roll on your offside, too.

Cheers, Jan

Jan,

can you explain the handroll for a C1? I can roll on both sides with the paddle, sometimes I even get an offside roll done when I hold my paddle on my good side , but the hand roll... not even close ..., no matter what boat I am in.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo

Martin:

One way to try a handroll is to work up to it gradually. Try rolling using hand paddles first before going with bare hands. I've also heard of people using swimmer's kick boards as a first step, but never done so myself. Like everything else, people seem to use different techniques. I've seen some hand rollers use each hand alternating in a kind of dog-paddle motion to keep their body up at the surface while they snapped the boat up with knees and thighs. I used both hands together for three successive bursts.

However, notice that I used "past tense." Unfortunately, my hand rolling days are now 60 lbs. and 20 years in the past.

John

Thanks!

Yarnell- other beginners Get a nose-plug!! (if you don't already have one) It's not a nice feeling to get water up the nose, want to bail and then fuss with the lap belt and skirt! I was pretty freeked out the first time it happened.

On that note... it's nothing to do with c1 technique - but what about avoiding the "oh sh!t Im upsidedown and out of air got to escape NOW!!" feeling? I reach that pretty quick in a pool, and even faster in whitewater. I'm thinking I'll just hang upsidedown for a while after a roll (without taking a breath) and see how long I can handle it.

Thanks Jan and John!

Mike.

John Coraor wrote:Martin:

One way to try a handroll is to work up to it gradually. Try rolling using hand paddles first before going with bare hands. I've also heard of people using swimmer's kick boards as a first step, but never done so myself. Like everything else, people seem to use different techniques. I've seen some hand rollers use each hand alternating in a kind of dog-paddle motion to keep their body up at the surface while they snapped the boat up with knees and thighs. I used both hands together for three successive bursts.

However, notice that I used "past tense." Unfortunately, my hand rolling days are now 60 lbs. and 20 years in the past.

John

Thanks John!

Well, I guess it's time to get handpaddles then. I can roll left and right with a kick board (even in my prelude OC1), but without it, not a chance...

Oh well, still lots of work to do in the pool... Reliable offide roll on my stron side, try offside rolling on my weak side and handrolls...

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Thanks for looking out for me Mike! I got the nose plugs as soon as I started rolling my open boat.

In very few attempts, I've had zero luck hand rolling my Outrage.

Thanks Jan, never having been in a kayak hull, even that little description of the stern squirt is helpful as something to try, aside from all the variations on getting comfortable upside down and rolling.

Other than rolling on your side that's less natural for you (i.e., your "other side roll" - rolling on your left if you normally paddle right), what's an "offside roll" - do you actually roll on an offside/cross stroke?

I guess I could look at that in Thrill of the Paddle as an option during a tandem roll? But I think I'll stick to coming under the boat or switching hands.

Cheers, P.

Hey all,

*my* handroll goes like this (there might be better ways):
I flip
I stretch way out on the front deck, really close to the deck, arms are stretched out. Now I do the usual sweep out motion and turn my body so I face the bottom. At the same time (while doing the sweep), I angle my hands, so that they surface and get my upper body close to the surface.
In a really agressive burst, I engage the on-side arm, closely followed by the off-side arm (two stroke roll). This goes together with a strong hip-kick and sweeping back towards the bow.
I finish off with a couple hand stokes.
In whitewater or will all that gear (pfd, drytop, helmet, elbow pads...) on, you'll sometimes might have to use an extra kick with your onside arm.

Flat bottom boats work easier. C1 works easier than OC.
In C1, you can also do the same handroll kayakers do from your back deck. Thats very handy for play, when your already on your back deck.

For learning, a smimmers-board is great, you find it at every pool.

Off-side roll: You do a sweeping low brace roll on the off-side. The sweep engages the non-power face and ends close by the bow where a cross-forward can finish the roll to stabilise.

Avoiding to panick? Try that game that I mentioned:
go upside down, pass your paddle from one hand to the other by reaching "under" the boat (i.e. pass paddle through air) resort and roll.
Or, go upside down. Throw paddle away, look for it. paddle there with hands (upside down still). Grab paddle, roll up.
Or have someone heavy sit on your upside down boat

Cheers, Jan
Ps: 27 consecutive days of rain just ended and I can't wait for the next shower!

goggles can be really helpful, especially if there is lots of chlorine in the pool.

Getting your boat onto the diving board and bouncing up and down in it until you are launched into space is always good for a few laughs and will probably teach you something about setting up your roll from odd positions.

Martyn

Yes, goggles and nose plugs will help an incredible amount for working in the pool. Especially the goggles as you can see what you are doing underwater.
I think the problem I have with the handroll in an OC is that I am 14, and not very tall yet, so I have trouble reaching out accross the gunwhales of a 28 inch wide boat in order to do the final "hit" with my hands on the water.
Also, for the hand roll, I found this helpfull, but rather confusing to think about:

When attempting a hand roll for the first time, try rolling up on your off side, because you are engaging your normal onside knee. You push with your onside knee and it should actually be easier since that leg is probably stronger because of your onside lean.
Or at least I found this to be true.---A bit confusing, but if you think about it it should work.


Nate

Mike, regarding the urge to bail... I experienced the same thing until I became 100% confident in my on water roll. When I finally got a reliable roll, the panic seemed to go away since the uncertainty of not rolling up (and thus air) was gone. My advice, work on getting a very reliable conventional roll.

It’s amazing how much longer you’ll hang in there if you really believe in your roll.