C-Forum

Can I get some help with selecting a C1 racing boat?

The new shorter racing designs really turn me on . Does anyone have any experience and opinions about the Vajda Lizard 365? I am probably going to do some local racing down at the Reno Whitewater Park and other local sites. I need a relatively durable boat to deal with the usual mistakes. What layup might work best for me?

I had paddled a New Wave Extrabat as a river runner for several years in the past. That included rocky runs like the Lower Big Sandy. It has a heavy duty layup and never broke, nor did I ever have to patch it. New Wave put together an amazingly strong boat! I used the Extrabat in a couple of races out here in California but realize that their are far better designs now for racing, and the Extrabat is heavy . It is time for a change.

I can't expect a Vajda layup to match the New Wave Extrabat in terms of durability but I do want something that I can make some mistakes in.
Any help?
SYOTR,
Bruce

very fast, very stable, though my friend had his outfitted with a 3 inch saddle. spins nicely to boot.
cheers
-isaac

also something to think about that i didn't mention is the gala makao which is 355, and a smaller boat in general. looks like a sweet one though, here's the link. i have no experience what-so-ever in this boat, but there is a discussion on the Gala proper website.

www.galasport.com

http://www.galasport.com/catalogue/inde ... uct_id=210

cheers
-isaac

Hi Bruce,

I have seen several of my friends paddling the Lizard, and I guess it's the hot new boat (I thought it was called "the Wizard" but I guess I've flipped over in cold water once too often).

Anyway, I just changed slalom boats from a 1996 design to a fairly recent design (Galasport Shubak) and I must say - I cannot believe the difference. I have picked up about 10 seconds on 90 second courses. It turns without effort. It is so much lighter than my old boat. It's really got me exciting about racing. It's like cheating or something . . . except that now I'm merely on a level playing field with everyone else. And I understand that the Lizard turns even more easily than my boat (which is a cut-down, not a true, short boat).

The only problem is the price on those new boats. Frankly I'm not sure how guys buy them every year.

Also, I don't know too much about layups and stuff like that, but the Galasport feels pretty durable. Having this new boat frees me up to take my old one down Great Falls, Big Sandy, and Upper Yough too . . .

Just be careful with your boat (don't try enders absolutely everywhere) and you should be fine.

Alden

Bruce- Ed Gordon here. Good seeing you at the park on Sunday. I'm no expert on modern slalom designs, but I have learned that some designs work better for a different body shape than others. This link, although primarily about outfitting, gives some interesting insight on one olympic level paddler's thought's on choosing a boat.
http://www.stuartmcintosh.co.uk/html/ca ... oosing.htm

You might also look at the Gala website, which has a link to Robin Bell's website, in which he explains the thinking behind his new design. See you in the park....edg

cool set-up he has with the mini-bulkhead. if my knees ended before the cockpit rim, i'd do that too. too bad.
the vadja is definetely an easy turning boat, and i found that it goes fast in a straight line too, it goes faster than my zealot, and it was more energetic going into, and coming out of eddies. imo.
cheers
-isaac

Where are you going to find the time to paddle all these new boats, Bruce?

Oh yeah, i forgot, you're a few minutes away from a park... Well, i guess it's good practice for the "real" rivers out there ... hope to see you soon..

Bruce:

Try reading this posting from Robin Bell on his "Loco".

http://www.robinbell.canoe.org.au/defau ... Page=10309

He is the current World Champ. Along with Galasport he has designed a new boat based on the Shubak. He is a big boy as well so this boat will be in an XL version, +90kg. Also, Tony Estanguet just released a new design, Makao

http://www.galasport.com/catalogue/inde ... uct_id=210

The Lizard is fine boat as well; however, as a citizen racer wanna be I kind of like the design theory behind both the Makao and Loco.

Hope this helps,

Tom

Thanks everyone for the valuable information. I've got some thinking to do......It should be fun.
SYOTR,
Bruce

if anyone wants, i have just received some photos ofthe loco from gala.
just give me an email that i can reply to and i'll attach them.
cheers
-isaac

bearboater wrote:if anyone wants, i have just received some photos ofthe loco from gala.
just give me an email that i can reply to and i'll attach them.
cheers
-isaac

Send them to Adam! I'm sure he would be more than happy to host them!

I'd like a look at those pics of the Loco if you don't mind sending them to:

tom20882<@>yahoo.com (remove the < >)

I am quite close to ordering one for myself and a Makao for my son. Just waiting to see how he does in a couple of races coming up.

tom, you mentioned that you like the design theory behind the makao, and the loco, which is...? testing chopped down versions then improving them?
and i don't think you need to wait for too long on the loco, since he won the WC in basically the same boat with a little less forward speed than the new version.

the one thing i think that the loco has going for it more for the larger paddlers is that it looks like the bow is more floaty, and would stay afloat better then the vajda. but robins comment on the volume placement of the vajda in his discussion on the loco, is kind of ironic, becaues if you compare photos of the boats, they are very similar in volume placement. the tail may be just a hair smaller in the loco, if that.

I am suddenly questioning my thought on the vajda. Ay.
cheers
-isaac

Let me clarify, I was refering to my son as I want to make sure he is dedicated to continue racing. What he has, an old cut down, repaired and reoutfitted Ultimo is fine for now. I promised him if he qualified for the Junior Olympics I would get him a new boat. Qualifying for the JO is a certain thing provided he doesn't crash and burn on every run. As one of the Qualifiers is on the Potomac - Feeder Canal May 21, it will be even more of a certainty for him. He trains there pretty regularly. I will probably get him a Makao (Galasport). The Makao is one sharp looking boat.

I will order myself a Loco primarily because there will be an XL version. +90kg. I weigh about 93kg (205). The Loco also adopts
some features to enhance tracking from the Ninja Pro. The added volume in the bow, from what I read was to add stability. It will also help with knee room. Stability and limiting errors is what, in my opinion, is perfect for a "Citizen Racer" such as myself. As Robin said:

"The Slovak(read Vjada) boat was the closest thing to what I was looking for in a race boat. I found there was not enough width in the bow, so I would be unstable when doing strokes up forward. I thought, the boat was a little unbalanced with the large portion of the volume residing in the tail."

What is so difficult when deciding on a race boat is that you cannot just go down to the local boat shop and try one out. As these are C-1s it is doubly hard. At this point all I can do is try to extrapolate what the boat will do for me from what is written on it by the manufacturer. For fit, look up the bios of the paddlers who are successfull with them and see how well they fit into the boat you are interrested in.

The Vajda Lizard is fine boat. I dropped them a note about sizing They said:

"The biggest guy I know we made a boat for is a local paddler Benus (junior European champion 2004). He is about 86 kg and we made Lizard 365 XL for him that is about 1 cm higher than the Lizard L.

Measurement of the cockpit are:
Length 46.5 cm
Width 59 cm
Depth 22.5 cm"


Caiman, DoubleDutch, Arrowcraft, etc. are making some nice looking boats as well. As they are all current designs, I do not think you would go wrong with any of them. Ultimately, I'll wager, it will all depend on how much you get on the water and train.

Just thought I'd add - I have quickly discovered that my new cut-down Shubak surfs incredibly well. It's way easier to turn on the wave than my old boat. It's so responsive too**. What a cool boat. You guys are lucky to be getting new slalom boats. Tom, I'm checking family records to see if I might qualify for a new boat from you if I make the Junior Olympics***. Frankly I'm more worried about passing for a 14-year old to enter the race. I'll make sure to shave.

Alden


** That way, when surfing on the Potomac, one can quickly avoid dead bodies.

*** Isn't this race really just the "Junior Nationals?" Don't the Olympics usually involve other countries? I'm just getting preemptively jealous for when they don't let me race in the JOs this year.