C-Forum

After reading past posts on Zephyr, I am left still with a number of basic questions:

Do the boats only come outfitted by esquif? Sounds like the royalite like difficulty with getting outifitting to adhere to hull? Details on what adhesives to use for home outfitting, if possible, would be appreciated.

Sounds like the hull is not so aggressive, any more details on that.

And are the newer "fixed" generation now heavier than original? No longer 32lbs but 38?

Any other comments re: speed and tracking would be great. Obvioulsy the boat can turn. But I've tried the Rumba that has huge amount of rocker, turns really fast, but tracks like my flashfire on flatwater.

thanks

danab wrote:
Sounds like the hull is not so aggressive, any more details on that.

Actually,I think it is very aggressive with room for error(if you have a good brace)

danab wrote: And are the newer "fixed" generation now heavier than original? No longer 32lbs but 38?

I weighed mine when I got it with only the foam bulkhead.It was 35 lbs. I'm not sure about the second run of them.
Are you coming to the Armada?You are welcome to try mine out.

1. Faster than the Ocoee- and I agree aggressive with room for error. I had 2 very low braces (head and arm in water) and it popped right up.
2. Gunnels narrower than Ocoee allow short arm folks, like myself, to easily keep paddle vertical.
3. The river was really low in "Windy Flats". Even avoiding rocks, I couldn't help but scrap across shelves between pointed rocks. (Yikes!) There are scratches, but not deep ones.
4. Asymmetry- The stern is less rockered which helps it to track more easily than an Ocoee where the slightest bit of knee pressure for me shifts the carve. Downside of the stern is it hits on some drops more than an Ocoee- BUT- there were no scratches, cracks, or dents where the stern hit on several drops.
5. Carving- I found compared to the Ocoee I had to put it more on edge to get the same carving ability. And- how it paddles in flat water- sluggish compared to Ocoee, is not how it feels in WW. Eight people demoed it this weekend.
6.Surfing- Wow- I caught waves on the fly. If I placed the bow on the edge of the hole as I went downstream, the boat carved onto the wave and practically surfed itself. Now- side-surfing is a little tricky with the asymmetry. I went over a 3 foot pourover and carved into an eddie, almost. What happened is I sat on the eddie line side surfing for several minutes, kinda stuck till I backed out downstream.
GREAT BOAT! True we will have to see how long it lasts, but the thin Royalex on todays Ocoees doesn't wear well. I compared the Royalex on an old Fantasy to the new Ocoee. Considerable thickness difference. My friends very old boat is in great shape.

Taking a set of bathroom scales when you go boat shopping (new or used) is a very good idea.

A 10 percent variance from the "factory" or advertised weight is very common, if not the rule.

If you are looking for a lightweight boat, or even one with a "normal" amount of poundage, best to hoist it to your shoulder and step on your scales before laying your money down.

You may be the only shopper with your own set of scales on the showroom floor, but you will also be the only buyer that actually knows exactly what you are walking out with!

The twintex plastic doesn't work with the usual royalex-vinyl adhesive, but I believe it does work with the epoxy used for skid plates (strictly personal specualtion after paddling one). It looked to me like Esquif cut little strips of kevlar felt and glued them on over a short piece of rope to get more gluing surface. I would think that you could also use the frayed rope & epoxy anchor method shown in Paul Mason/Mark Scriver's book to make loops on the hull (instead of the usual D-ring).

What do people think about the Twintex material? It is lighter than royalex, but more rigid. I would be worried about wrapping/badly pinning the boat and having it snap in two, rather than bending like a royalex hull. Just my thoughts.

Adam

First, that Esquif used kevlar tie down points. Yes, and I like this, having used them several times on my Royalex boats. A good way to do it is to comb out the ends of a length of webbing and then epoxy it with kevlar strips to the boat. Mine have held my thigh straps for more then a year. I know that some people, not being geezer enough to have lost brain cells to the epoxy, do not like to work with glass but I think glass may be a good solution to the Twintex glue issue. Does anybody yet have any reason to think the kevlar/epoxy will not adhere well to the Twintex?

Second, the material itself. I think it is very good and will be the whitewater canoe material of the future. It is very light and very strong and can be shaped far better then Royalex/Royalite. I agree that much more field work needs to be done. We really don't yet know what happens when it gets pinned under a lot of pressure. but, I am willing to bet that it holds up at least as well as Royalex. Sombody needs to go get pinned real bad and let us know. This is a job for LOUIE!!!

A third item. Twiggy sez that the Zypher is faster than an Ocoee. Oh great! that just means that is is the second slowest boat in the know universe. I paddled the Zypher and it is WAY faster than an Ocoee. Not as fast as Spark or Rival but much faster than the playboats. Chris Kelly

I was told by an Esquif employee that the anchors attached with glass/epoxy failed over time. I haven't tested it myself. I have my boat outfitted such that no load is placed on the factory-installed anchors (bulkhead held by thwarts and an air-bag lacing system which bypasses the anchors). I haven't tested my Zephyr lately to see if more pinholes are developing as the boat is paddled more. I attempted the pinning test that you suggest, Chris. Alas, I came out of the boat too soon and the boat totally missed out on the forces that fractured the bones in my lumbar spine and bruised my kidney. I'll try again soon.

I read about glass kevlar anchors on Zephyr from chris. I too have use this on our caption--royalex of course. I have seen some unsightly things happen over the winter with these, not in only our caption but on another. Cold and perhaps stress has caused some very shallow cracks around the perimeter of glass/expoxy. Never seen this on Kevlar boats, which seems to make sense. But sense there a very few geezer's except a couple of others (that includes you too Bob), and myself, this is likely an unimportant observation.

But come on, help me solve the mystery that still hasn't been answered. How are those knee pads and saddles stuck to that dam Zephyr? And why do I have such a hard time typing that word! Maybe because "porphyry" always messes me up too. Any other geologists out there. I'd rather be boating than looking at those porphyries any time.
dana

from canoeboy-
"Hey Guys, I spent some time talking to the sales manager at Esquif and i got the official instructions for DP-8005. They are kind of intense but it may provide some insight as to how to keep patches in. Please email myself at Nick@aldercreek.com or Niki at rekmann@telus.net to get a copy. I think everything is going to be a ok.
Nick"
Email Esquif for more info, Howard at NOC. For knee pads contact cement is fine per Jacque.
Also- my straps from Esquif are excellent, not thin, but well padded and a step beyond MY and BF. The knee strap is doubly adjustable. So far my "D-rings" are staying in. Wendy

I put knee pads and ankle blocks in with Weldwood. I also put down some neoprene foam using Weldwood to keep my toes extra comfy. All are staying in perfectly.

Yesterday, the boat did everything I asked it to. Fast, stable, surfs like a dream. The more I paddle it the more I like it. In fact, I went ahead and sold my Viper 12. When I got home last night there was a package from Jacques with an upgraded warranty.