Bringing this back up to top...fate of Mad River Canoe Co.

[boatbuster]

Cboatsaddict wrote:

A year, year and a half ago I had an interesting conversation with a current (former?) MR employee who had been involved in production. What he said about the quality of royalex coming from the supplier (no longer Uniroyal?) was very discouraging. Much more discouraging than the pinhole issues recently discovered with Twintex...

From what I understand, MR moved to NC a couple of years ago. MR ain't what they used to be, not many of those that got gobbled up by Watermark and Confluence are...

I have tried to find a listing for Mad River or Confluence in Trinity NC where they supposedly moved, and 411 has none. There is no phone number on their Web site and they have not answered my email. I am trying to find out if they will continue to manufacture the Outrages or if they are going to follow in the footsteps of Dagger and Mohawk and screw the folks (open boaters) that brought them along. I sure hope not, but I need to know.

Also last week, cboater wrote:

Mad River is still in business, the business of making really nice polyethelene canoes They moved because they are part of Confluence which is now the biggest conglomerate in the paddlesports business and I don't think they care too much about paddling anymore, hence the high performance rotomold canoes. GET A ZEPHYR!!


What do you mean high performance rotomold canoes? To me that meeans a Spanish Fly or Superfly. I would love it if someone (besides Pyranha) would get into that market, but I have my doubts.

I would much rather get answers to these questions directly from Mad River, but so far have not been able to get in touch. Any help answering these questions or getting a contact number for them is appreciated!

[boatbuster]

http://www.confluencewatersports.com/index.htm

As advocates for the sport of Whitewater Canoeing, I wonder if there is any chance this merger could result in production of some of the Dagger whitewater canoes. I know we face an uphill battle in this kayak-centric universe, but wouldn't it be cool if they re-started manufacturing some Captions, Rivals and Ovations, etc. (would say Ocoee, but Bell has that now) Dagger started out as a canoe company but then shafted us by stopping manufacturing of real boats. But Confluence, which bought Watermark (Dagger, Perception, etc), already owned Mad River Canoe. I just wonder if this might not provide an opening to get some of these Royalex designs back on the market. If they don't want to confuse the brands, they could manufacture them under the Mad River Canoe label, so you would have the Mad River Caption, Rival, etc.

I know, I'm probably just dreaming. But it would sure be nice to have several companies making open boats again. Who knows, maybe one would even come out with a new design? But it would take canoe enthusiasts working at this company to make it happen.

[Nessmuk]

As much as I hate to say it, I don't think it will happen. From what I can see, WW canoeing is pretty much a dying sport.

Two things have really convinced me of this:

1) the youngest WW open boater I know is in her late 30's; very few new (young) paddlers seem to be coming into the sport;

2) a beginner OC1 WW instructional I am teaching for my club this weekend has exactly one student (the kayaking course the same weekend is filled up, with a waiting list).

No new boaters = a shrinking market for boats = fewer manufacturers who can make money on OCs.

[h2sk1]

....snip..... From what I can see, WW canoeing is pretty much a dying sport.

Two things have really convinced me of this:

1) the youngest WW open boater I know is in her late 30's; very few new (young) paddlers seem to be coming into the sport;

2) a beginner OC1 WW instructional I am teaching for my club this weekend has exactly one student (the kayaking course the same weekend is filled up, with a waiting list).

No new boaters = a shrinking market for boats = fewer manufacturers who can make money on OCs.

I agree that kayaking has really captured the public's eye, but I wouldn't say OC is dying. A fairly large WW school here called MKC has seen its kayak numbers as steady, but has actually seen an increase in OC lessons last year. That's encouraging.

Several weekends ago at a paddling festival called PalmerFest, a new OC-1 specifically designed for children was unveiled and a course was held with 8-12 year olds paddling a solo WW canoe!! Pretty incredible.

Paddling clubs here abound, but the canoe clubs do remain strong. I guess it is the proximity to a lot of tripping rivers that keeps the canoeing going. That said, you can buy a kayak just about anywhere, yet it is harder to find a shop that sells real canoes.

[sbroam]

...I don't think they care too much about paddling anymore, hence the high performance rotomold canoes...

By "high performance rotomold canoes" I think he meant the kind they sell at the big box retailers, the kind that look sort of like a canoe but are 4' wide and have molded in live wells, cup holders, rod holders and the performance of an inebriated slug. I don't think he meant anything like a high performance rodeo OC-1... He might have been the least bit facetious.

[NateOC]

"1) the youngest WW open boater I know is in her late 30's; very few new (young) paddlers seem to be coming into the sport; "

Well, first of all I have to strongly aggree with this statement. I am 15 and don't see ANYBODY else my age in an open canoe on the rivers.
I definately feel as though I am in a strong minority. I started paddling last year and was one out of two, maybe three people in the begginers flatwater class I took who kept paddling the canoe. (I know at least one switched to the kayak).

Nate

[Louie]

19 and 28 and I think. I think the CHOTA school has some in their class.

[Louie]

will be reintorducing the Caption, but the truth of the matter is the
Vertage or Blast is a better boat.

[the great gonzo]

will be reintorducing the Caption, but the truth of the matter is the Vertage or Blast is a better boat.

The Blast, yes.
The Vertige, no way!

[kx250guy]

I think Louie is a Esqiif rep. He sure seems to praise only that brand .. Personally I like the Caption is a good boat. Steve Fraizer likes them ..

[Sir Adam]

Regarding younger paddlers...there have always been only a few CBoaters around, with certain exceptions, and those generally being in very strong race oriented areas.

I'm hoping to open up a C Gathering to all this year or next, have some folks to help teach rolling and basic skills, and have an afternoon class II experience for those interested / skilled enough to try it.

It's all about awareness among folks who are willing to use their own energy to propel them outdoors, versus fossil fuels of what sort or another (the irony of driving 1000 miles this weekend to paddle is not lost on me either )

Perhaps at next years armada we should all aim to bring a youngster, be it a son, daughter, nephew, or local kid you know (and their parents) well...and a bunch of C2's:)

[sdbrassfield]

http://www.confluencewatersports.com/index.htm

As advocates for the sport of Whitewater Canoeing, I wonder if there is any chance this merger could result in production of some of the Dagger whitewater canoes. I know we face an uphill battle in this kayak-centric universe, but wouldn't it be cool if they re-started manufacturing some Captions, Rivals and Ovations, etc.

Heck yea it would be great. You know, all this may not be wishful thinking though. Mad River is now making the "Legend" based on the old Dagger mold. I do not know for sure if it is offered in royalex though. The "Legend" is a great river runner, not a full ww play boat, but a classic.

Could this be a trend, lets hope so... I wish I knew how to get in touch with them also. They have always been hard for customers to get up with but have always been very dealer friendly...Lets find a reliable contact and start and e-mail campaign...?

[sdbrassfield]

[/quote]

Mad River is now making the "Legend" based on the old Dagger mold. I do not know for sure if it is offered in royalex though. The "Legend" is a great river runner, not a full ww play boat, but a classic.

Could this be a trend, lets hope so... I wish I knew how to get in touch with them also. They have always been hard for customers to get up with but have always been very dealer friendly...Lets find a reliable contact and start and e-mail campaign...?[/quote]

Edit: Just checked. The "Legend" is an Rx boat...Maybe we can find a dealer that feels our pain...and get us to the right contacts to ask some questions about any future plans to resurrect some more of the old Dagger ww boats...I will at least try... Will call my local dealer and see if I can get some info...

[dixie_boater]

They would be wise to make the Caption and the Dimension. I know folks that would buy several of these hulls. My friend tried a Vertige X and said it wouldn't replace a Caption.

As for the email campaign.....Let me know who to contact at MRC/Confluence and I'll pass the info onto to my open boating friends. Maybe we can persuade them to make these boats again. I know Milt would probably buy five to start with. I'll settle for two

[Louie]

Buff Grubb would be the man at Conflunce to talk to. He seems to be the drivin force behind open boats over there.

FYI

Legend- Mad River is makin them

Caption-Mad River is going to make them

Ocoee-Bell is makein a knock off

All these are OK bopats but hades fire they are so old and made by companies that don't seem to have any intrest in new designs and can or do only rehash good boats from the last decade. I work for Esquif and know the people and know they paddle open boats and only open boats. They keep open boats in the forfront of the sport and work to come up with new designs. You can support who ever you want and paddle what you want but I know who I want to see make it in the openboat business world. If a lot of people bought cars like they bought boats I think they would all be driving around in three on the tree, non power steerin, non power brakes, no A/C, hand crank window, carberated 1950 model cars. IMHO.