C-Forum

I bought a squirt boat last weekend, a (I believe full cut) Acrobat .
I just ordered the Jimmy Snider squirt boat book and a video, but I already want to play around a bit with it in the flats.
I have no problems squirting the stern in the flats, but I am having a hardtime getting the bow down. I gcan get is somewhat under water, but the best I got was maybe a 30 degree angle.
Anyone got any poninters?
I also tried cartwheels, again the bow does not go as deep as I thisnk it should and I have a really hard time controlling the boat when having the bow down.
I weight ~190 lbs, and am ~6'1".

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Martin
Way cool on getting the boat! You'll have a blast in it and it will bring a whole different perspective to your paddling!

Do you know the cut? The more the cut (volume) (e.g.: Full > 1/2 > Master) the more difficult it is to get it function on the axis.

If it's a New Wave you can usually look under the right knee pad for the spec sheet (which is glassed in).

Now for the boat and the "issues" you are having. You did the right thing ordering the book and the video but they only help so much since they are K focused. That said, since Jim's book is long boat oriented you'll pick things up quickly (plus based on your skill sets you'll be up to speed quickly just keep reference to the fact that you have half the paddle to play with)!

On getting the bow down in flat water - this is hardER to do in a longer boat with more volume - e.i.: my (Full cut) Acrobat is way harder than Mike's (Master), or even Adam's (1/2) but it is do-able!!!

First try to stern squirt then transition to the bow squirt by rotating and using the face(s) of the blade and your abs to drive the boat. Stern squirts are pretty much the key to the boat since you'll get a good understanding of the edges and axis better during the move and then use that info to transition from.

You can also use the double pump to get the boat up on edge for the bow stall. That is start with the beginnings of a bow squirt to get the bow to start up then smash down on the back face of the paddle to drive the bow down. A bit of current is very helpful here so look for a small nice clean eddy line. You have to be quick at it and drive with your body (at first) placing your face toward the subsurface. As your get the feel of what you need to do you'll find that more abs and less smash get you up quicker but that a you develop your zone within the boat's parameters.

Or bow squirt, as you sound like you are currently trying, get your head down as close to the bow as possibel and "skull" with the paddle to try to get the bow deeper.

The trick is to visualize what you want to do.. think thru the problem relating to the edges and your single blade... then do it trusting your thought process! Your mind will be having issues and be sending out danger signals since the leans are against everything you have learned to date!

Right now I think this is more than enough info and I'm sure others will join in too (Mike W., Adam, Matt, etc.).

Mileage is the best teacher and don't be afraid to let the boat go places you're not to sure about ! The Maven is re-inforcing that process with me currently! but in a way!

Enjoy and keep us posted on your progress.

Yours in C-quirt! Paul C.

PS: One trick in flats and pool (others might pooh-pooh this too) is to let some water into the boat. This will aid in getting the feel for the edges and because it makes the boat "sluggish" you can feel the boat move across the axis(es). But take care here since even small volume changes in a C-quirt boat effect its responsiveness (rolling, paddle-ability, etc.)! Do NOT try this in moving water since you can easily get past the boat’s natural / neutral buoyancy and wind up with an out of control submarine!

Have you tried a cross bow draw? You reach across to your offside and do a simple cross draw, while you drop the leading (offside) edge of your boat. The boat will pass under the paddle blade as it is going vertical. It seems a little awkward at first, but when it works, it looks pretty cool. I have even seen kayakers use the technique. I have found that it helps to have the boat moving forward before starting.
Even at your size, it may be tough to get the bow down and control it in a full cut boat on flatwater though.

LEW

Hiya Martin

I definitely agree with LEW. The cross-bow draw is a super fun way to sink the bow. It's largely a c-specific move, although Snyder mentions it in his book for kayakers too (with a warning about torn abs - I don't think that's a problem as much in the C1). I learnt this one first in Adam's Groove while just messing around.

Try it in flatwater and if it feels good, or if you still can't quite get it to sink, try it on a gentle eddy line (think Aare in Munsingen, not Aare in Worblaufen or Uttigen) and the current will help you out.

It's funny, but I find I'm more comfortable on my bow than I am on my stern.

Cheers,
Matt

PS...Now you've got to come squirt with me next time you're over here - the Groove will be a good boat for you to play with while I'm in the Maven or Acrobat.

Martin, Congrats on the Acro! At 190 I found my 1/2" cut hard to cartwheel on flatwater. It wanted a mild eddyline to help.

What I do to go from flat to the bow station is get a little forward speed & wing the onside edge down while pulling it to the paddle, which is back-sweeping towards the bow, while throwing my weight between the bow & blade. Once I've gotten the bow down as far as it will go with that move, I have the paddle shaft horizontal & just under the water's surface & reverse my spin so that I'm now spinning towards my off-side. At the same time that you reverse the spin, you have to switch your boat tilt so that the off-side is now winging down.

If I'm on an eddyline I charge into the current to my offside, lean forward & initiate spin

If I'm not vertical enough, raise my head. If I'm about to fall on my head, stick it in the water. Maintain spin to maintain verticality If I'm falling back to flat, I can also increase the speed of the spin to keep the stern up. It seems that faster spins keep the boat more vertical. Remember as you get dizzy from the spinning, that for a smooth exit you'll need to unscrew the bow from the water, which may take another 3/4 spin

To go from stern to bow station I rotate to my on-side & plant the paddle behind me to smash the bow down. Always lead with your head. Here is a shot of the smash for a righty:
http://cboats.net/gallery/index.php?alb ... 591re2.jpg

Here is a shot of the smash for a lefty:
http://cboats.net/gallery/index.php?alb ... G_1089.JPG

When you get the book pay particular attention to the illustrations. The attacking edge is really helpful. Good luck with "The Test" I can't do it

Thanks for all the pointers guys, Ill try em next time I get out.

PAC, I am quite sure it's a full cut, as it has very similar lines to your boat and about the same amount of room in the cockpit area, and definitely significantly more than a master cut one, I tried twice to fit my long legs into a master cut (NZMatt's boat a few years ago ond Mike W's boat at the Armada) and it was hopeless ...
The previous owner also told me that the first owner bought it off the shelf from a shop in the Berkshires, which would, I think, also hint at a full cut.

PAC on another note, are you going to be at the Ohipyle Falls race in August? I am thinking of driving down there to check it out.

NZMatt, I will actually be in Europe during the next 2 weeks and will most likely be visiting my folks in Berne on the weekend of the 22/23 of July. I could definitely be talked into paddling for a few hours ...

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Martin
Since its a Full you can probably rule out the double pump smash to get it up. But if you get an lite eddy line you will quickly figure it out using a nose dive or cross bow draw. Just find that lite eddy / seam and go flop about and enjoy!
As for the Ohipyle Falls race in August... I'll be there. I'm trying to get KNeal up with his family as well but we will C on that. One way or the other I'll be there. Let me know if you need a place to crash - I might not have any rooms / beds available but I can offer a patch of ground for camping, a hot shower, place to tie up Steve's dogs and maybe a cold beverage or two! My place is about 1/2 hour away - 10 to 15 miniutes more than the local camping areas.
On a side note I've offered KNeal a ride over the falls in the plastic C2. Your welcome to take beating... I mean run too! Actually lets C if we can get KNeal up and you folks bring that hot little C2 of yours and well have a real race in our own seperate class! LOL
Paul C.

Sounds like Paul didn't learn the first time we paddled c-2 down the "Loop". Hmm. Probably wants to put me in front this time. After my previous "Poseidon" post, I guess I need to step up to the plate again and put forth my best effort--or show my yellow streak, again.

That's a tempting enough offer to tentatively accept. Maybe we can turn the weekend into an August armada if Martin can make it and others. After all, there is plenty of camping in the area. Hiking will have to be part of the deal.

KNeal

PAC, yes, the Noah C2 will definitely find it's way on top of the roof racks and so will the Finkenmeister.
Would it alo be worth to take the Acrobat along or is it not an appropriate boat to run the lower Yough? Some of the friends who might join are not necessarily interested in running the falls, but are interested in a run down the lower Yough.
I'll let you know about our plans once the date gets closer and I can get people to commit ...

KNeal, the idea of turning it into an August armada is great, I will see how many people I can get to join.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Matrin cool on the Noah the Finkenmeister taking the ride. As for the Acrobat on the LY that shouldn't be an issue. As long as your comfortable in it (missing rocks and what not and sitting in it for 9 miles). I paddle the loop regularly in mine for quick fun runs and have used on the whole run a number of times.
As for not doing the falls - no problem - just let me know how many in advance asap so I can scope out the launch permit issue (its a pain but those are the rules). Just a ball park number and the days your thinking of paddling - since this is shaping up to have more than the announce crew showing up, per some PMs.
Keep the thought process open for the Slip and other runs too if there some rain since the Falls Race will only go off if the Corp can keep the flow, via the dam, pegged at 1.8-1.9.