C1 squirting

[steve B]

Having met up with NZMatt at the Swiss Armada, I saw his master cut Acrobat which has rekindled my interest in C1 squirting.
A few years back I bought an Acrobat which, as I now understand was a full cut. At the time I was a bit dissapointed as I couldn't do what I wanted, and it was way too big & long for our shallow English rivers.
Still keen, I built the Meltdown with the help of Jason Buxton at Valley Canoes (UK). This was an improvement but there was still too much volume in the knee tunnels.
I'm now keen to cut my Acrobat into a Mystery move machine, can anyone give me some details of the dimensions between the full & master cut, or what would be a suitable cut for me (90kg/200lbs).
Thanks for your help.
Steve

[Sir Adam]

Greetings!
The "average" Acrobat length (of the Master Cut variety) is around 10.5 feet, but it varies depending on what you want to use it for. If I were you I'd figure out what length I wanted ("standard cut" boats of 11.5 feet + are capable of down time too, you just need to cut more volume out of the hull...), then figure out how much to cut. A good way to start volume wise is figure out your weight (and the boats), and what that weight is in water volume, and fill the boat up...it will give you a start anyway of where to cut. That's how I started with the "Mave or Ick" that eventually developed into the Maven anyway. When NZMatt gets his seamed up THAT will by a mystery machine...even at Matt's weight .
If you get a chance please PM or e-mail me any information you'd like to share on the Meltdown and it's development-it would be a great addition to the site! I hope to pick one up eventually, but it appears the only hope is purchasing one new right now. Matt had some really good things to say about the boat, even though he was a bit under-weight for the cut.

[PAC]

Your full Acrobat will limit Cquirt-ability to a degree but will be okay in very powerful (and at times scary seams). But then I know squat about UK water or design tech so I'll see if I can point you to the experts. I like my full cut for river running and general play but Mike W.s Master was just a hoot and a 1/2.
WHat I do understand is that cuts / chops mean different things to different people (body sizes, weight, height, comfort and skill set). This is why the pro builders put you in a pool and tweak the boat with you in it. Resizing and testing to get the float right.
Check out the PS Composite site under the frequently asked questions (sizes) section http://www.customkayak.com/ or email Paul. He has the mold for the Acrobat I beleive and should be great help. If you can't get him PM me and I see if I can stop over and get the deal for you.
Murky Waters I'm sure will help too http://www.murkywaterkayak.com/construc ... ginfo.html
Neither really have much in the line of Cs (murky lists the Groove) but they have them.
Kaz and the others might want to post too since I know they have experience on this as well and really are good at providing details that are understandable.
I even think Adam has a list of who has what mold buried here on the site but I could not find it. That would be a help too.
The key is, if I understand it, is to get only slight positive bouancy in the boat when you are done and to modify the ends accordingly to your desires (shorten, shape, etc.).
Other help can be found in either Charlie Walbridges Boat building book or Jim Snyders Squirt book.
Sorry I'm not much help - I have helped in chopping but I was just lucky to be there to hold stuff. Post again if you don't get an answer and I'll snoop about for you over here in the states.
Keep us posted as to how it goes. Paul C.

[PAC]

Darn Adam beat me to the post! Also try the angst squirt forum... usually one of the godfathers of squirt will provide a tip or two. Paul C.


PS: Adam the Mav is still kicking my butt but my abs are tighting up along with the thing between my butt cheeks! How is the vacation going - any paddling getting done? Enjoy!

[billcanoes]

I'm 195 and the full cut acrobat seems to large- but May 04 the .5 cut seemed crazy- it stern squirts and then the bow will dive in about 2' (Ironically I bought the acrobat and it was outfitted K1) which was funny to see the conversion go the other way. I have a lot to learn still....I think you need to import a maven-

Bill

[sbroam]

This was in my e-mail this morning :
---------------------------------------------------
Subject : A.Word.A.Day - maven

This week's theme: words from Yiddish.

maven (MAY-vuhn) noun

An expert, connoisseur, or enthusiast.

[From Yiddish meyvn, from Hebrew mebhin (one who understands).]

Today's word in Visual Thesaurus: http://visualthesaurus.com/?w1=maven

-Anu Garg (gargATwordsmith.org)

"The panelists are a who's who of television and film mavens."
James Adams; TV Networks Can Relax; The Globe and Mail (Toronto, Canada);
Jun 12, 2006.

Sponsors' Messages:
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............................................................................
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as worthless is in danger of arriving also at the idea of worthless human
lives. -Albert Schweitzer, philosopher, physician, musician, Nobel laureate
(1875-1965)

Send your comments to (words AT wordsmith.org). To unsubscribe, update address
send gift subscription, etc., visit http://wordsmith.org/awad/subscriber.html

Pronunciation:
http://wordsmith.org/words/maven.wav
http://wordsmith.org/words/maven.ram

Permalink: http://wordsmith.org/words/maven.html

[squeakyknee]

Hey PAC,
Was the beautiful blue Acrobat I played in on the cheat a Full cut?
I liked that cut. It wasn't as Cquirty as Mike's, but much more managable to my tall lanky self. http://cornyouthalliance.org/photo.php?pnumb=222
Adam's Maven was interesting. I personally would like to see what happens if it's widened by about 2" or so. I have to get my knees farther apart than the boat would allow.

[ezwater]

It's easy to squirt in a c-1, compared to a kayak, because of the kneeling position and the smaller cockpit. But you need to wear loose paddling shorts. I just lean hard to my paddle side and shoot an arc in your general direction.

[PAC]

Shawn the boat you were squirting in the picture is Adam's 1/2 fut.

My full is the one that has the bat on it but it too will stand up (on either end) it just takes a bit more umph (and stronger flow) to get it there, and to hold it --> http://cboats.net/gallery/index.php?alb ... G_1122.JPG on end

Some other pictures...

http://cboats.net/gallery/index.php?alb ... %20207.jpg next to other Acrobats

http://cboats.net/gallery/index.php?alb ... %20052.jpg next to Maven

http://cboats.net/gallery/index.php?alb ... G_1124.JPG next to the other boats (Acrobats, Mavens, Oxygens and Vipers). This is a nice picture to show the differences in cuts and how its more volume centric and not just lenght & / or width with the 1/2 shorter than the Master cut or full cut (just less volume).

As for the Maven I think Adam is on to something with just adjusting the cockpit rim. So I'm waiting on his experiences with the outcome the planned operation prior to me taking the grinder to the Proto. I do have to say you get an education from the Mav - set up as is.... I'm much more humble now when it comes to paddling the Maven - you need a lot lighter touch and more finesse.. not to mention tighter abs (I lack all of the above)!
Paul C.

[squeakyknee]

As for the Maven I think Adam is on to something with just adjusting the cockpit rim. Paul C.

Maybe for you short fellows,but my legs are like a foot longer than most of you guys.Great design,but MORE WIDTH>>>

[Sir Adam]

We're not sure the boat needs more width, as the full cut version (for skinny-legged folks) feels fine...the problem appears to be in cut down versions you can't spread your knees as wide, as your thighs hit the rim first. On all new boats we're cutting them down differently so its not a problem. On my boat I've tweaked the cockpit area to allow for my somewhat generous thighs more room, so my knees are further out towards the side of the boa (about the same distance apart as my Acrobat, believe it or not!). I still have to re-rim the boat, and will post a full report after I test it out...

[Mike W.]

We're not sure the boat needs more width...

We who? I'm pretty sure that the boat needs to be wider. At least for the illusion of lateral stability I think the only one I tried was LEW's. I don't recall the boat being uncomfortable, just unstable. Then again, it could be that I'm just not mavenous enough to paddle a Maven

OH! Adam, Thanks for the tip on converting from a lap-belt to thigh-straps in my Acrobat! It made a huge difference

[Sir Adam]

Why, the Royal 'We' of course! PAC and I discussed it a bit, and in light of how I feel in the demo Maven vs. my half cut it appears to make sense. I / we won't know for sure until I test out the retrofitted boat.

LEW's is a classic example of what I'm talking about, actually...there is no way you (or I) can get our thighs under the turret like I designed it to do. A bit wider rim, and cutting the tips and tails (and leaving the central volume) should keep it nice and comfy.

Assuming it helps on my Maven, I'll be very curious to see how PAC feels if he does a similar retrofit.


The more I / we tweak it, the more we learn:)

[Mike W.]

Ahhhhhh, the ROYAL WE. I knew that & was just poking fun I should've tried all three Mavens. I didn't feel like I needed to get my thighs under the turret, I was comfortable & the CSS Virginia wasn't firing on me.

[squeakyknee]

At least for the illusion of lateral stability

I don't remember you having lateral so much as verticle stability issues with it on the Cheat.