C-Forum

I just returnrd from a trip on the wilderness section of the Selway where I used my bilge pump and lithium battery from Rapidrunner Bilge Pump. I was skert that the battery wud throw craps during the 5 day paddle so I used it sparingly on the first 2 days. On the 4th day we had bunches of whitewater and I used it a lot. Not only did it keep pumping for the whole trip but the day after taking off we ran Alberton Gorge and since it was the last day I used it lots, trying to run it down. I left the river with the pump still working. I am a happy customer. Chris Kelly

Now if they would just respond to emails more regularly....

It sounds like a great product

I am starting to become more interested in a battery driven bilge pump. I could really see the benefit of a battery pump in a tripper, but what about a playboat on day runs?

I like Eric Nyre's Canoe Colorado design and I paddled with a guy this weekend on the Arkansas, Numbers Run, who had a factory outfitted Detonator including bilge pump. It sure liked nice flipping a switch versus hand pumping and dumping water throughout the day.

It seems like the battery life and space is not an issue, but how about the extra weight in a playboat? I realize water adds up quickly in weight. To me, part of the art of open boating is keeping that water out, which I continually try to get better at. However, in more difficult rapids keeping water out is harder to do, especially if you miss your line, hit a whole or big waves. Combine that with a long continous rapids without many eddys or if you miss the only eddy, you can be in real trouble with a boat full of water.

I have cheated by building a front deck for my Ocoee. This helps eliminate some water, but adds weight and needless to say does not compare to a battery driven pump.

In carrying the Detonator side by side with my Ocoee down to the river this weekend, the Detonator felt very heavy and I thought my Ocoee felt heavy (vinyl gunwales).

I know a lot of people like the Detonator and it sure looks like it is built bomber. I would be curious if the Detonator paddles lighter then it feels on land or you just get use to it?

For those who have battery driven pumps, is it worth the weight for play boat day runs? Do you notice the extra weight? I really do not want to make my boat feel heavier and more sluggish. Maybe you do not notice the weight because it is in the middle of the boat versus the ends like my deck?

If you're paddling an Ocoee, you might want to think about a Zoom rather than a Detonator. The Detonator is a great boat, but it's not fast and doesn't carve well, whereas those are two things the Zoom does really well and so does the Ocoee. The Zoom is, however, much twitchier than the Ocoee. I would say even more say than an Ocoee pulled in 4", but I didn't spend enough time in that boat and ti was too long ago to be really sure.

I have the same perspective on pumps - my goal is always to stay dry, but playboating and creeking that is often just not possible. Playboating is much more fun without constantly getting out to empty and creeking is faster and safer. Keeps the kayakers happier too No waiting for me to empty my boat...well that's the plan. Now I have to build the thing

I have used a pump for several years in an Ocoee and Prelude. The setup was an Atwood 1250 with a sealed lead battery (long life, but extra weight). Normally I use technique and eddy hop down rivers like the Ocoee River, but sometimes it is just plain fun to bust through waves and holes like I did last weekend in the Zephyr without a pump.
I never felt the extra weight in the Prelude (setup weighed 5-6 pounds) till carrying the boat on take-out or portages. In the water it is a pure blessing. The lead battery lasts a long time on a charge. I am very interested in the lithium battery to reduce weight and space. The guy at River Bilge is very helpful to talk with. He uses a lower a smaller pump with a battery that drives the motor faster than recommended, but he says there have been no problems with it. River Bilge web site shows multiple ways to set it up in your boat too.

I do recommend lithium ion batteries if you have the money for them. I bought a big battery pack with built in protection (short circuit and over-charge) at Batteryspace.com, but there are other plans available that use off-the-shelf rechargable LiI batteries.

Very light, and compact!!! I use the Pelican 1010 case for the battery and all the switches. It is small.

less than 2 lbs. I use it in both the Rival and the Spark and love it. The vast majority of my boating is day trips where I am surfing, catching eddys and just playing about (this includes swimming).

I am completely sold on the pump. Rapid Runner Bilge Systems has treated me very well. At first there was a problem with the charger for the lithium battery but they stuck with it and got it fixed. I am happy with the pump and with the dealer.

In the Rival I ran the hose out the stern but with the Spark I used an elbow at the end of the hose and shoot the water out the side almost at the stern. This setup has the added advantage of being able to come up next to a kayaker, flip the pump on and give that sucker the good washing he invariably needs. Really, I went out the side on the Spark because the stern is too narrow to get the conection well seated.

I have really enjoyed not having to stop and get out or bail. It makes my time on the river that much more fun. Chris Kelly

from battery space. Do you use the Atwood 1250 pump? The lead battery is great, but I am ready to switch to lithium batteries to decrease weight.

a little yellow pump and do not know which lithium batter it is. It is the one the RRBP sells standard. I will look tonight and post tommorrow. CK

Wendy wrote:from battery space. Do you use the Atwood 1250 pump? The lead battery is great, but I am ready to switch to lithium batteries to decrease weight.

Wendy - I think I used the 14.8V battery pack from the following URL:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?P ... rodID=2477

The costs include a charger. I wouldn't buy such a large battery in the future. I don't find I've every drained it, so there's a battery pack at $55 which will do just fine. One thing about these battery packs. They include short-circuit protection which prevents blowing up your battery. This is good IMO. But, the pump looks like a short-circuit at start-up, so I had to add a tiny startup circuit. It is a few resistors, 1 capacitor, 1 transistor. Cost: $3. Worth it for protecting the battery and myself if a short truly does occur which actually has happened when I've done stupid things like forgetting to lock my Pelican case PM me if you want details.

I don't use an Attwood pump. I use a Rule pump. Basically the same thing. A friend uses the same battery pack as me, but on an Attwood pump.

For another option, there's full instructions for building your own with parts you can buy at any BestBuy + Radioshack. The instructions are in French though. This is simpler, requires no startup circuit, but has no protection for short circuit. The instructions are available at

http://192.77.51.2/~cleduc/Canot/Diver ... lombe.pdf

[tech alert] For the techies out there, RapidBilge, and the systems I've mentioned here run the motor fast because bilge pumps are designed to run at 13.3V (they say 12, but a 12V batter being charged on a motor boat is at 13.3V). The lithium ion batteries sit around 14.4V, which is too high for the motor. You can either drop this voltage down or run your motor faster than it was designed for. I've got two pump systems in the field - one running the motor fast, the other one running it at 13.3V. It is too early to tell which is better. [/tech alert]

Wendy wrote:Do you use the Atwood 1250 pump? The lead battery is great, but I am ready to switch to lithium batteries to decrease weight.

Wendy,

I am happily using an Atwood 1250 in my Rival.

For a batt I went with a Ni-MH battery instead of the lithium mostly to save $. Not only was the battery cheaper but so was the charger. I have not had it run out of juice yet on a day trip. On a week long trip last spring (40+ miles of class II, III+) it held out until the last couple of hours of the last day. Several of the days were chilly - 40 degrees or so.

Got the battery from BatterySpace. It's a 12v 3500mAh that is sold as a laptop replacement. It fits well in an Otterbox 3000 with enough extra room for a switch and fuse.

Finding a waterproof box that would hold the battery without being too big was the biggest challenge of this DIY project.

How is your pump mounted? I tried several things but none proved reliable until I glued the pump mount to the floor of the boat.

-Dave

Thanks Dave- My pump mount is glued to the floor. First a very thin piece of foam is glued, then the pump mount glued to the foam. This has worked great.
Wendy
Check this out: http://www.canoecolorado.com/canoeing/bilgepump/

comes directly from Rapid Runner. It is it Lithium polymer one. Go to pictures and technical details.

http://www.rapidrunnerbilge.com/products.php

Chris Kelly

Hiya K2Sk1,

A question about your pump/battery setup. The one you run at 14.4V - do you have trouble tripping the max discharge rate protector on the battery? I have a Rule pump here (1000GPH, model 20A). It claims a 2.9A draw at 12V and a 4.0A draw at 13.6V. The fuse in the pump is 5A. I was worried that if I hooked it up to a 14.4V battery the draw rate would either overload the battery or blow the fuse in the pump. Have you had any issues?

I'm also vaguely thinking about allowing for a double-pump system, but this means I need a battery that can take a 9A or 10A draw to run 2 pumps in parallel. Any thoughts? It'll cost more to setup this way, because the battery will be more expensive, but it'll be less than if I later have to buy a new battery to run 2 pumps.

Cheers,
Matt

NZMatt wrote:A question about your pump/battery setup. The one you run at 14.4V - do you have trouble tripping the max discharge rate protector on the battery? I have a Rule pump here (1000GPH, model 20A). It claims a 2.9A draw at 12V and a 4.0A draw at 13.6V. The fuse in the pump is 5A. I was worried that if I hooked it up to a 14.4V battery the draw rate would either overload the battery or blow the fuse in the pump. Have you had any issues?

Once I put in my startup circuit (which slowly applies the power to the pump to get it running) I've run into no problems. The reason I see no problems is the battery pack I use has its own built-in current limit which is much faster and set at a lower limit than the Rule 5A fuse.

NZMatt wrote:I'm also vaguely thinking about allowing for a double-pump system, but this means I need a battery that can take a 9A or 10A draw to run 2 pumps in parallel. Any thoughts?

There are some LiIion battery packs that can drive up to 12A. THese cost around $270 (including the charger). One that I've seen is 8 inches by 2.5 inches. This will run two pumps quite nicely. Another option is to buy a bilge pump running on 24 or 32V. These things have 2000gph pumping capability which is twice the normal capacity with just one pump. A 22V LiIon battery would cost around $160.

Lastly, you can resort to Lead-Acid and live with the extra weight.