so if you have money...

[nam]

and you like getting air, and you are about 75 kg, what kind of c1 would you have, good and bad, advice please.
Shaggy design or Wheelboy?

http://www.shaggydesigns.com/

http://www.backwashkayaks.com/drakkar/

nam

[squeakyknee]

I'm about 160lbs. and love my wheelboy,though I haven't been able to get it airborn yet.
I haven't paddled shaggy's except for the Sith which seems more of a surf/spin boat.
The new Saint from shaggy looks like a great candidate for air.
I'm going out to hit the Big H20 today. Maybe I'll try a little harder to get the wheelboy out of the H20. I'll keep you posted

[Sir Adam]

I have not paddled the Saint yet, but think VERY HIGHLY of the Sith.... And yes, I like my wheelboy too:)

That said, IF you prefer composite boats, without a doubt I'd very seriously consider the Sait.

IF you prefer plastic boats, go for the Wheelboy.

[Dale@half-shaft]

If you have money, I'd say get one of each.

[nam]

I am drewling on the saint. Please, can I have it for my birthday?

nam

[Gwyn]

**A slightly important announcement from Shaggy Designs**

We have finally go around to deciding upon a name for our new craft (rather than calling it the Saint C1). Our new boat is going to be called the PAGAN!

The Shaggy Designs website has just been update with some more photos of the prototype and newer photos of the Saint - www.shaggydesigns.com.

We finished laying up the mold a few days ago, and so we should have the first boats out of the mold in the next month or so. Keep checking back on the website for some more images soon.

If you still need some convincing, Martin Breu (the great Gonzo) owns a Sith and a Wheelboy, and also has our last prototype Pagan, so would be the ideal person to ask...

Gwyn
Shaggy Designs

[PAC]

Dale@half-shaft is 100% correct here! Get one of each…

Martin let me demo the PAGAN (…and Gwyn I like the name choice …I felt like one in it! ) on the Lower Yough today for a low water Loop run. I really enjoyed the paddling the boat. But comparing a WB, to a Sith and / or a PAGEN would be like comparing the well built brunette with “the voice”, to the personable blonde with the cute smile, to red head with killer eyes. It just isn’t fair! But I will try….
Each boat has their place and is perfectly wonderful in their own way (note the comparison above was left generic for the ladies as well as the “dudes”).
First off I love the Wheel Boy – it surfs, spins and generally plays very nice and is made indestructible via heavy plastic. Not a fast boat (hey it’s just a tad over 6 foot) but fast enough! Because of it I’m now down to paddling only two boats on a regular basis – it and the Acrobat.
The Sith (I paddled both Bill Reaps and Martin’s – two different cuts with different “attitudes”) and I found the Sith to be fast, lose and most important…fun (I like a loose boat). I was in for only a few minutes and found my self pushing it into places I wouldn’t normally push a boat not set up for me. Again it was fast, deceptively so, and was a hoot to surf and spin in .. and loose.. very loose! Did mention loose! I also would not have an issue taking into really big water (duh.. look were the designers paddle)! Nor would I have a problem taking it on some light creeking runs (except both versions I paddled were someone else’s boat) both were fast enough and stable enough for playful Upper Yough runs. Enough said!
Now the Pagan – a tad over 6 foot and some lines like the Wheel Boy but… with a number of differences – first the version I was in was glass…so comparing to glass to a plastic boat is not fair – “everything happens faster in glass”! And it was happening!
The PAGAN (Saint C1) is definitely (IMHO) a BIG water play boat. I can see were it would be the bomb on really big exploding waves and in the hands of a master it’s got to be a big air machine. It carves like a knife on even the small features we had today! I was able to get in hard to hold holes with ease – waves / holes the WB would have trouble getting to or at least staying in / on. This included flatten out waves and steep short holes. The tri crease design near the planning plate gets it to “rail” speed when needed, even though it’s feels like a “corky” boat at first. I was able to use the rails to get up to speed quickly to get were I wanted to go at whim. And it is retentive as “h, e – double - L” and I mean that in a good stable way. It flat spins, cart wheels, back surfs, front surfs and generally gave me an ear to ear grin. I’d love to get in it in really big water (Martin you are coming down for a spring Cheat run right! …. so eh, er, guys will it still be out for demoing…. Hint, hint! ). It is sized to fit bigger guys too with nice clean outfitting (I like the glassed in thigh blocks and wide seat)! Overall… Definitely a T-grip up based on my LY Loop lower water run.

Thanks Shaggy for the loaner.... and the fun! PAC (Paul C.)

PS: Adam - Martin was in the refab’ed Maven Proto and I have video! I’ll get vid to you when I can! I even think he had fun in it!

[msims]

I'll pipe in for Martin Breu... "Buy both"
________
CHARLES E. SORENSEN

[the great gonzo]

I'll pipe in for Martin Breu... "Buy both"

msims, I have to correct you... ... BUY ALL THREE (Sith , Wheelboy and Pagan that is ... ...)!!!

PAC pretty much nailed it on the head in his describtion of the 3 boats, I can't describe them any better .

nam, both the Wheelboy as well as the Pagan are great boatsin their own way, as Paul mentioned, but to answer your specific question about getting air, I personally am not yet (and will propbably never be) as advanced a playboater to pull off big air moves, but simply due to it's harder carving triple chines, better bounce and lighter weight I think that the Pagan has better potential for pulling off big air moves.
Think of it as the dedicated play boat, while the wheelboy is more of a riverrunning playboat. As mentioned before, boat are great boats in their own way.

Paul, most likely I will already be able to bring my own production Pagan with me for that high water Cheat run next spring ...

Adam, yes, I was in the modifed Maven. Itwas slightly less entertaining for the spectators than when I paddles yours. I felt a bit more in control and was actually able to spend more time upright in it than upside down . I did not swim out of it and did even get some somewhat controlled bow and stern stalls out of it . I even dared to venture out onto the eddyline and into the moving water at the put-in for the Lower Yough.
I think I would still take a solid beating in it if I took it into anything harder than class I...


martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!