C-Forum

In Snyders book he writes about bow screws, whirlygigs and washouts. Is anyone doing these c-1? I am comfortable cartwheeling, onside, not as comfortable offside, but I've not got the skills yet to control past vertical moves. Translating k to c, for the bow screw is it easier to do the initiation and exit strokes and just clean the cheater stroke, or use the cheater stroke and clean the initiation and exit strokes? I've been trying the initiation and exit strokes, but end up flopping on my face alot. any help would be appreciated.
It's probably moot, the snow is flying here now, but I may be able to find a deep pool to play in.

Aric

hades, I invented the Whirlygig.
not to be completely assinine,
no, in actuality, I haven't the faintest Idea what that is. I like the name though.
Prost
-Isaac

Bow screws...I think I've been doing those for a while. I'll have to check the book before I paddle in the morning. I'll let you know if the great one has a name for what I'm doing.

I have done screw-ups in my full-cut Viper. It's harder to do past-vertical stuff in the master cut Acro since there's not as much tool area. I can do ugly cartwheels onside, I haven't even attempted off-side cartwheels. The other stuff is pretty advanced for my skill level. I'm hoping tomorrow's level will get me my first head-under mystery

sweet, good luck! I understand the concept, but I've not been able to do it yet.

Aric

Nice to see others are working on "issues" with the C-quirt. What boat / cut are you in Aric?
I've come to think that our additional length from the deck creates special challenges (keeping perpendicular to the boat / surface) when it comes to keeping on axis (lose the vertical hold and the ends fall off line). Compared to a K which can be more easily centered with the closer center and training paddle.
I might be wrong since the only boats I have right now are my full cut Acrobat (more volume) and the Maven proto (Adam loner and it's the paddler here, not the boat, that has issues).
I can't get the Acro to flat-water cart but can sometimes do it along stronger seam lines. But it is NOT pretty (I wind up moving all over the axises which looks like a dead fish flopping about)! I can engage some of the other moves in it as well but they are ugly too. I was in Mike's Master cut for a sort time and it is much more understanding for me but my paddling was still butt ugly.
I have also found that whirllies are easier for me (in moving water) but again I think it has to do with my style. I can clean after the smash move by just targeting for direction with my face but then I fall of axis and flop over.
I'm working on figuring out the Maven and hope to put that puzzle together within the near term - or over the winter in a pool. I picked up an older K to use as a baseline (I'm hoping it helps at least adds in tight'ning up my abs for further C work).
Enjoy the snow and look for an indoor pool to experiment in over the winter! Best of .. and enjoy!
Paul C.

what is a whirlygig? and the washout?
I understand they are squirt moves, all I can do are near vertical pivots on eddy lines.
Prost
-Isaac

Pac, I have a non master acrobat low cut for 170, with my weight being about 185, once i figure things out, I hope to sink it.
unfortunately to closest pool session to me is a shallow pool. I need to find a deep one. I guess if I were really hardcore the lake won't freeze for another month, but that's cold!
Issac, essentially whirlygigs are past vertical cartwheels, and washouts are clean past vert wheels. I am still learning to bow screw, a step toward whirlygigs where you start in a bow squirt with some spin, go past vertical and then transition to a stern station. Its fun trying to figure this stuff out.

Aric

Aric
Sounds like a nice boat - I love my Full Cut Acro (as do those who have tried it out). Not a DT machince but rips as a river running squirt.
I hear you on a shallow pool shaving your buzz particuraly with a long boat. Keep at it - we can only get better (at least that is my hope)!
Issac
Check out PSComposites library for some light reading http://www.customkayak.com/html/library.html on the squirt (although kayak specific). In there you will find http://www.customkayak.com/html/screwtest.html which notes whirlies and screwing about.
Also if you get a chance you should read the Squirt Boating & Beyond book it has lots of informatin that transitions from squirting to general paddling and gives you some appreication of how boating and related moves developed. Definenately worth the money with descriptions and images http://www.customkayak.com/html/fun_stuff.html.
Enjoy!
Paul C.

A friend just gave me a video by Jim & Jeff Snyder called "Certain Squirtin". I'm not sure when they produced it, or how to go about getting another copy.
I haven't had a chance to go through it closely, but it seems to have many of the moves in "The Squirt Book".
Between the commentary and the video, I think it will be a great resource. It is so much better to actually see the techniques in action while they are being described rather than trying to sort them out from a book.
LEW

I can't find my book. I did run through "The Great White Charc" though (it's a shame that one is only available on vhs). I'm not doing bow screws But I AM having tons of fun in my boats. I guess what I'm doing is an extended bow squirt.

They did some goofy stuff with the river levels this week so I didn't catch the level that I think will make a mystery spot I think I may have problems with the ends of the Acro on mysteries. I think the Maven is a better choice for downtime. That said, I am mearly a tadpole & the best I've ever done was almost chest deep in LEW's Maven.

PAC, you just need to consume more ice-cream & beer to cartwheel the full cut At 190lbs I had to have a little bit of an eddy-line to cartwheel my 1/2" cut. At 195lbs., current nor current differentials are needed for any surface moves in the master cut

I have never been in a squirt boat and know less than nothing about squirt boats - but - it does look like a lot of fun. Who makes a plastic C1 squirt boat? The water I paddle around here would make sure a composite boat has a very short lifetime. I’m 6' tall 210 pounds with size 11.5 feet and paddle an Esquif Detonator about 90% of the time. Thanks in advance for your informative help.

Euro Kayaks made for a brief period of time a plastic squirt boat, but it has been long since discontinued and they are not in business any more.
The problem with trying to make a squirt boat out of plastic is that the boats volume is fixed and can only be somewhat modified through squashing of the boat, while a composite boat, due to the fact that it's made in 2 parts and joined together, volume can be trimmed to match the weight of the paddler, which is important in a squirt boat.
I don't think that anyone will again try to make a squirt boat in plastic.

At this point you best bet is probably to try to find a used Acrobat.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Someone posted this link over on the Angst board. There are plastic & glass squirt K-1's. My guess is that it would be tricky to convert a squirt K to C, but there's a pank one for $50 I think the closest thing to a plastic C-1 squirt would be a Groove prototype. These are rare & really more of a hybrid squirt/surface boat (y'all correct me if I'm off base here).

http://www.sierraoutdoorcenter.com/WWSquirt.html

Wavesport XXX

Thanks for the info guys. I should have thought about the XXX. My son all but gave one away a couple of months ago. I may need to find out where it went and look at how hard it would be to get my big butt in it.