Whats a good OC-1 for creeks?

Decked Canoes, Open Canoes, as long as they're canoes!

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Steward
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Post by Steward » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:31 pm

If you are into creeking, get a plastic boat. Like you, I've beatin my Ocoee into submission, and I'm now saving whats left for slalom. I've also spent some time in my wife's Outrage. In August I bought a Taureau. You can't even compare the 2 for creeking, the taureau will fit places you would not consider in the Ocoee, and it's much drier, boofs easily, and rolls easily. I'd highly recommend you look at a small plastic boat, (Tarueau, Spanish FLy, Quake, Skeeter, Prelude) Try them before you buy to find what you like. You will have so much more fun on a small creek.

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Post by jscottl67 » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:00 pm

I think you might be on the right track with the Viper 11 if you love the Ocoee. On the Nanty a couple of weeks back, a Viper owner paddled my Ocoee...from his comments, the Ocoee has more edge at the ends while the Viper is a little looser on the ends with the edge mainly near the center of the boat. He was on a Shaman, so I couldn't compare the Viper first hand.

I love watching people on my Ocoee for the first time. :evil: It's pinched 2" and decked 4" at the ends. :D My next OC wll either be a Viper, a Zephyr, or a stock Ocoee...hope to be able to keep this one around for a few years though :) Wet, but dang it's fun. :)

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Post by Jan_dettmer » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:48 pm

I agree with Steward. The little plastic boats are great for low volume once you get used to em. That said, it's a question of what your used to...

I don't agree that you need super skills to paddle short OC's though. IMO they are easier/more intuitive to paddle once you get a hang of the different style.

A Prelude is like an Ocoee on steroids. Great boat but not the most stable.

I hate trashing roayalex hulls. It's too expensive for my taste.

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creek OC1

Post by kmcinturff » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:02 pm

I totally agree on the plastic. I will never own another royalex or royalite boat again (except for tandems) if I can help it. I loved my old Mohawk Rodeo - but it wore out in a year and a half. My Prelude is like new after 2 years of abuse, no kevlar patches, delaminations, etc. I did put a dent in the stern one time, and after I got home and the boat warmed up the dent popped out on its own.

Another huge benefit I have not seen mentioned is the ability of plastic to slide. It slides over shallow rocks much, much easier than royalex. I sometimes get way out ahead of my friends on shallow rocky creeks as they are getting stuck constantly. It is so slick that you have to be careful when you sit it up on a rock for lunch - it wants to slide back into the water. This benefit to me is almost as important as the durability - especially on low flow bony creeks.

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Post by yarnellboat » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:10 pm

So why hasn't anybody made popular OC-1 boats like Ocoees or Vipers or Outrages in plastic?

PY.

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Post by jscottl67 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:11 pm

Possibly that the boating public would like the plastic (i.e. less expensive for same model) boat, and would no longer pay for the royalex boats (higher margins)?

Honestly, if the Trintex proves itself over a few years, I'm sure Bell and others will be jumping on the bandwagon or Esquif will start offering all their models with that option and will sell a ton of boats.

Jeff

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Post by Steward » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:45 pm

It's much more expensive in start-up costs for a plastic or Twintex boat design. For Royalex, all you need is a fiberglass mold, heat the sheets and press them out.

For Twintex, fiberglass will not stand the required heat, so you now need an expensive aluminum mold.

For Plastic rotomolded like the spanish fly etc, you also have an expensive mold and process.

The Taureau is a completely new process and material so no one (maybe Jacque) knows if its appliable to larger boats.

To start making a plastic boat, you need to have sales volume to cover the startup costs or risk taking a loss. This is why I like esquif, they are taking risks, with new material and process.

At approx $20K for an aluminum mold, you need to seel a lot of boats.

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Post by jscottl67 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:08 pm

I'm sure that the initial costs are more for production, not sure of the ongoing. I know that as a consumer, if the material turns out to be as great as it appears, the value is going to be there.

Make an Ocoee in both materials and I know which I would choose. :)

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Post by cheajack » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:12 pm

Besides, a plastic hull the size of an Ocoee or Outrage would weigh a ton and be extremely slow (drag coefficient of plastic vs Royalex). I think the way to go is composite (up through Class IV streams). It's easier to patch.
Jack

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Craig Smerda
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Post by Craig Smerda » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:28 pm

Here's a quick example of how boats are rotomolded
http://www.lvmvideo.com/quicktime/MakingAKayakPart1.mov

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sbroam
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Post by sbroam » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:00 pm

I ain't much of a creeker (except my knees and that is spelled different) and I haven't had my Zephyr long, but... I'd think it should be at least an "OK" creeker. It's fast and turns on a dime with change to spare; it has nice edges but not so much that you would be tripping over them. It sure seems dry, even plowing head on into stuff. Couldn't bring myself to roll it on the frigid Nanty, but will soon.

The first thing I thought when I hopped into it was "this is so much like my old Viper 12"... Like true love all over again.

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I agree with the big, soft chined school of thought.

Post by ChrisKelly » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:22 pm

My Rival has the same advantages that Jim listed for his Outrage. The Caption folks take this stability issue to an even higher level.

I hasten to add that I am not any kind of extreme creeker. The Russell Fork is the hardest river I have run so cannot speak to the real tough stuff.

MY Spark is a great canoe but when I want a bit more stability I'll go back to the Rival. BTW, for me at least, the same boats that are good on the creeks seem to work well in bigger water.

I could never warm up to the little boats; the Skeeter, Quake, Taurreau etc.

Beating up the boat has never bothered me too much. I figure it is the price of admission. Chris Kelly

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Post by jscottl67 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:21 pm

Thanks for the video, Craig. Obviously a lot o expense in setting up the molds and machinery, but looks like the cost of the materials and labor would be pretty low.

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Post by squeakyknee » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:25 pm

sbroam wrote:Anybody creeking the Zephyr?

Certainly am!
It's holding up just fine :D
Amiga!!
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sbroam
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Post by sbroam » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:13 pm

squeakyknee wrote:
sbroam wrote:Anybody creeking the Zephyr?

Certainly am!
It's holding up just fine :D
After bombing through some low water on my local run , I can see how the Zeph would work just fine as a creeker... I'm liking this boat a LOT.

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