C-Forum

Reading these forums has made me realize how "out of touch" I really am. I've been paddling a C-1 for over 20 years but I've never paddled one out out of Mexico where we c-1ers have always been few and far between. I only know one other active c-1er. In fact I've done very little paddling in the US. I've onle done the different forks on the american and a couple of day trips on the different sections of the Merced, all in an oc-1 and that is it.

For some time now I've been wanting to change my image. With the new 2 meter long play boats on the rivers, I remind myself of an old, gray headed, retiree driveing to the post office in a 1969 cadillac to pick up a social security check in Carmel, California, every time that I start down river in my old Dagger Cascade with my gray hear and beard.

Since I'm completely out of touch, I would appreciate any recommendations for a more modern, agile, lighter and fun boat.

I am 6'4" tall, weight varies from 195-215 usually pretty close to 200. I have no idea what kind of paddler I am. (no reference point) Intermediate, I suppose. I'm almost 64, should that matter and wear a size 13 1/2 shoe. I usually paddle class 3-4 with the ocassional jump to something higher. I like to play. I like technical rivers, drops and creeks.

I was looking at Drakkar, as much as I hate the sound of it, the Fat Boy because of my height and weight. I also looked at Shaggy designs that has some pretty boats but they are composite and remind me of salom boats. I'm a bit of an animal adn do enough creeks and drops that I haven't really considered Shaggy that seriously. What ever I choose, I want to try and get it completely outfited. I'm getting lazy. My first boats I outfited from shells. I even added hip pads and knee retainers to the cascade. I like a very, very tight boat.

Any suggestions to help me get rid of my Carmel, Ca. old fart image and replace it with a more modern old fart image would be appreciated.

Thanks and hope you are enjoying your weekend.

ed

Given your size (incuding foot), and the fact you like to river run and play class III / IV, I would say either a Drakkar "Big Boy" (larger Wheelboy) or a Shaggy Sith. The Big Boy would be Ok for creeking, as long as you were careful about the rocks...not sure about the Sith at your weight. Both are composite (e.g. not plastic), for better or worse.

I have two favorite river-runners (that are not squirt boats..important to toss that in there;) ), but they are very different - the Viper (old school, 10' 6" or so...GREAT for cruising and surfing "bigger" water), and a boat I do not yet own...the Sith...better for getting on smaller features, playing in holes. The Sith is actually more stable and comfortable, but a bit slower.

I like the Wheelboy too, but it's a bit slow for my taste (despite being pretty fast for it's size), but that's because I spend most of my time in cut down race boats...., and heavier than I would like (in glass I'm sure the weight would be fine...I like like boats, what can I say!).

The only other boat that comes to mind at the moment, though it is not a a playboat, would be a Finkenmeister.


Your other option, of course, would be to find a converted kayak...for your weight I'd think a Score would suit your needs well...but I'll let others far more knowledgeable on the subject comment on that

...And, as another "old fart," let me also say that there isn't anything wrong with being old school. I have taken a playboat for a spin and enjoyed doing flatwater bow stalls. Spinning it on any axis was a piece of cake (I spun 720 degrees on my first roll attempt), and I'm sure that they must be great fun for all kinds of freestyle tricks. But, my god, what a pig it was to actually paddle forward rather than just spin! I've paddled slalom boats for years and I still love the speed I have in a slalom hull, along with the ability to pivot when tight turns are needed.

Get a short boat if you want, but don't be afraid to paddle your old school longboat if it still gives you an experience that you enjoy!

John

John Coraor wrote:...And, as another "old fart," let me also say that there isn't anything wrong with being old school. I have taken a playboat for a spin and enjoyed doing flatwater bow stalls. Spinning it on any axis was a piece of cake (I spun 720 degrees on my first roll attempt), and I'm sure that they must be great fun for all kinds of freestyle tricks. But, my god, what a pig it was to actually paddle forward rather than just spin! I've paddled slalom boats for years and I still love the speed I have in a slalom hull, along with the ability to pivot when tight turns are needed.

Get a short boat if you want, but don't be afraid to paddle your old school longboat if it still gives you an experience that you enjoy!

John

You are probably right, John, but the grass always seems greener . . . . You did bring up a point though about running a river, I have my doubts although all the kayak folks see they are great but what else can they say? Actually the majority of the rivers that I run are technical and more or less steep so I could probably get by with something like the FatBoy in plastic, I terrified of composite although I like the weight. Not too short, volume for a "fat boy" and should be ok but would it be the best of both worlds. I guess that is what I'm looking for. I'm bored with the cascade probably more than anything else and need a new toy.

Thanks for the reality check.

ed

If you're mainly into running rivers, not playing, how about considering the Robson Finkenmeister. It's a C1 Creekboat. Big, comfy and it'll be closer to the Cascade than a modern playboat would, so it'll probably feel more natural and have a smaller learning curve. It's also designed by a big guy for big guys.

Just a thought

Cheers,
Matt

Consider moving your post from the boat for sale section to the C Boat C Forum section.

Hi Ed,

glad you posted-
I got your message but got returned emails.
I recognize the handle as part of the email address.


Anyway, the fatboy design looks promising but has never made it to production. The fullcut Sith fits me well at 195- I have had paddlers 240-250 and 6'5" or so get in it for very short periods-

Martin from Shaggy Designs can make add 5mm to each half which would add volume and a little extra room for you.

Otherwise if you can find one the fink would be a good boat-

Bill

billcanoes@yahoo.com

billcanoes wrote:Hi Ed,

glad you posted-
I got your message but got returned emails.
I recognize the handle as part of the email address.


Anyway, the fatboy design looks promising but has never made it to production. The fullcut Sith fits me well at 195- I have had paddlers 240-250 and 6'5" or so get in it for very short periods-

Martin from Shaggy Designs can make add 5mm to each half which would add volume and a little extra room for you.

Otherwise if you can find one the fink would be a good boat-

Bill

billcanoes@yahoo.com

Hi, Bill,

Great to finally make contact. The email is eculp@encontacto.net just so you have it. Any idea when the fatboy will be out? The wheelboy seems like it might be a little small for me.

The Sith looks fantastic but I am afraid of composite boats probably from the problems with the old fiberglass and later kevlar downriver and slalom boats that we had here in Mexico, years ago.

Always paddling plastic boats I have never had to worry or even think about the boat in steep technical rivers and drops. I'm not sure that I would have to start now;)

I could probably use some words of wisdom here for you guys who have paddled everything. This forum makes me feel that I have been very isolated here.

Thanks for all the advice and your patience with an old guy.

ed

i know i'm a broken record, but i sure like the pyranha burn. it's a cool boat. AND.. you undoubtedly could get one fully outfitted from bernie. a lot of people here think you have to paddle a true c1..well,(since nobody's going to see you anyways )i say it's ok to convert! .....opens up a lot of good choices

Larry Horne wrote:i know i'm a broken record, but i sure like the pyranha burn. it's a cool boat. AND.. you undoubtedly could get one fully outfitted from bernie. a lot of people here think you have to paddle a true c1..well,(since nobody's going to see you anyways )i say it's ok to convert! .....opens up a lot of good choices

Hi, Larry,

At first glance it looks really good, if it were only a c-1:(

Am I understanding you correctly that Bernie could/might sell me a pyranha burn, outfitted as a C-1? That would be an interesting option.

I guess I'm getting lazy but I would really like to find a fully outfitted c-1, similar en design - more general purpose, that only needed tweaking at most. Of course I've never had one like that. Although I do keep getting closer. The Cascade only needed hip pads, some carved out foam knee sockets under the deck and an extra set of straps to tighten it up a bit.

Hi Ed,

The Wheelboy is definately too small for you- and Bernies conversion are outstanding FYI- at least sitting in it at Gauleyfest

We've been waiting almost two years for the fatboy- so.... I think most people are pretty frustrated at the wait but hopeful the boat will come to be-

Bill

Hey Bill,

Any news from Drakkar about the Fatboy?

Cheers!

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

I paddle composite boats and love the light weight. A good composite layup with kevlar or other synthetics will hold up better than most people think, and if you do damage them, repair is much easier and the results much stronger than with plastic. However, most of us who paddle composites do try hard not to hit rocks. Boofing and seal launches are best left to plastic boats. If you paddle shallow technical creeks and are used to hitting lots of rocks and boofing every chance you get, then I would stick with plastic.

John

John Coraor wrote:I paddle composite boats and love the light weight. A good composite layup with kevlar or other synthetics will hold up better than most people think, and if you do damage them, repair is much easier and the results much stronger than with plastic. However, most of us who paddle composites do try hard not to hit rocks. Boofing and seal launches are best left to plastic boats. If you paddle shallow technical creeks and are used to hitting lots of rocks and boofing every chance you get, then I would stick with plastic.

John

Thanks, John. I thought that it was still that way but who wouldn't love a lighter boat but taking into consideration the rivers that I paddle and the acquired bad habits having most always paddled plastic. I'd be better off with a FatBoy that doesn't seem that it will be coming too awfully soon or a conversion. I'll probably be going to the States in March or April and would like to bring something back with me. I'm beginning to think that may not be enough time.

Thanks, again, John.

ed

billcanoes wrote:Hi Ed,

The Wheelboy is definately too small for you- and Bernies conversion are outstanding FYI- at least sitting in it at Gauleyfest

We've been waiting almost two years for the fatboy- so.... I think most people are pretty frustrated at the wait but hopeful the boat will come to be-

Bill

Hi, Bill,

I saw someone just asked about the fatboy so I won't repeat it. (I guess I just did, almost What other suggestions do you or liquid mojo have for a March delivery?

Thanks,

ed