I picked up an old Mohawk Challenger at the end of last season. I've been patching it up over the winter, filling in stem wear, dings, adding home-brew Xynole/Resin skid plates and have considered installing bags. I just came up with the from the basement with the shock realization that I've been stuck in my usual "feature creep" mode plunking cash into an old boat. It's got plenty of life in it, but has certainly seen miles.
Before I put any more cash into this old boat, I want to take a reality check. I intend to run local (Ohio) rivers with it, do the occasional flatwater, camp out of it and learn basic (foundation) OC1 whitewater. I know this isn't a whitewater boat and won't handle quickly (especially with my 160 lb. frame), but figure it's a stable dry solo to learn in. Is my plan sound? I find myself moving away from the butt boats as time goes by and this summer I'm stuck in "run what ya got" mode.
Thanks,
Phreon
Set me straight. Am I wasting time with this ol' Challenger?
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
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Sir Adam
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What I'm about to say may, or may not, be of any use.
The "boat what you've got" is a great way to start out...as long as you don't get too frustrated when someone else in a newer design makes everything look easier...because a lot of things ARE easier in newer (and whitewater-specific designs). As long as you keep that in mind, have fun:) . A lot of the first descents in open boats were done in alum. canoes...you don't see them much in whitewater anymore (and for good reason), but that doesn't mean it can't be done...and likewise with your boat.
The disclaimer being I can't picture the Challenger right now, so hopefully someone more knowledgable will chime in with more information about the boats capabilities.
In the end, it's all about getting out there and enjoying yourself, regardless of what you paddle.
The "boat what you've got" is a great way to start out...as long as you don't get too frustrated when someone else in a newer design makes everything look easier...because a lot of things ARE easier in newer (and whitewater-specific designs). As long as you keep that in mind, have fun:) . A lot of the first descents in open boats were done in alum. canoes...you don't see them much in whitewater anymore (and for good reason), but that doesn't mean it can't be done...and likewise with your boat.
The disclaimer being I can't picture the Challenger right now, so hopefully someone more knowledgable will chime in with more information about the boats capabilities.
In the end, it's all about getting out there and enjoying yourself, regardless of what you paddle.
Keep the C!
Adam
Adam
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sbroam
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Like Adam said, I don't know if this will be of any use, but here goes!
I'm a big believer in making the best of what you have - my first descents were in a Coleman - tricked out with mahogany gunwales (it was what we had, left over from a project on a much nicer boat) and air bags (that went to later use in a nicer boat). [Silk purse and a sow's ear come to mind] It wasn't a great boat, but I didn't know any better and I had a lot of fun. Paddling even a Coleman is still infinitely better than not paddling at all! I think that is what they mean by "opportunity cost"...
I think you should be able to keep your repairs economical (search on "ABS putty"). When working on outfitting, keep reuse in mind. If you get air bags, get a size you think you can use in a future boat (i.e - don't get 72" bags if you anticipate getting a 10' later). If you want a saddle, maybe don't get the 20 pound perception saddle from the attic of the local paddling shop, build/buy a minicell pedestal you can move to a new boat etc...
I think I have an idea what a Challenger looks like - I think we have one or a close relative on the rack - great big boat, predates the XL series? 13'+?
I'm a big believer in making the best of what you have - my first descents were in a Coleman - tricked out with mahogany gunwales (it was what we had, left over from a project on a much nicer boat) and air bags (that went to later use in a nicer boat). [Silk purse and a sow's ear come to mind] It wasn't a great boat, but I didn't know any better and I had a lot of fun. Paddling even a Coleman is still infinitely better than not paddling at all! I think that is what they mean by "opportunity cost"...
I think you should be able to keep your repairs economical (search on "ABS putty"). When working on outfitting, keep reuse in mind. If you get air bags, get a size you think you can use in a future boat (i.e - don't get 72" bags if you anticipate getting a 10' later). If you want a saddle, maybe don't get the 20 pound perception saddle from the attic of the local paddling shop, build/buy a minicell pedestal you can move to a new boat etc...
I think I have an idea what a Challenger looks like - I think we have one or a close relative on the rack - great big boat, predates the XL series? 13'+?
C-Boats Moderator
http://picasaweb.google.com/scott.broam/CanoeOutfitting
http://picasaweb.google.com/scott.broam/CanoeOutfitting
I have an old Challenger that I paddled for quite awhile. It now sits forlorned in the backyard. I have used it recently for carrying trash on river cleanups.
The Challenger is an old Nolan Whitesell design, least that is what he claimed to me when I was looking for a new boat years ago. He said he designed it for slalom racing and recreational cruising on Class 2-3 water. Mine is heavy at a stout 60+ lbs for a 13'2" boat and is made out of royalex.
The Challenger is fast and tracks well on flat water. It has a hint of rocker to it. For the time period, 80's, it would have been considered a mild rocker. I ran the Lower Yough and Savage with it many times and usually stayed pretty dry. Never anything more than a bailing sponge or cut off detergent bottle was required to empty it. Clunking over the old Piedmont dam on the Savage fills it up pretty good though.... Surfs and spins reasonably well for its size. I had front and rear air bags probably 48". This left a nice gear storage area in front of the saddle. It would roll good however, when filled up with water you needed to find the shore line quick to empty it. A 13' boat weighs a lot when filled with water!
Keep playing with what you have got. Most importantly get it out on the river. It is a fine boat. Yeah it is dated and ugly; however, on the plus side you will look like a seriously veteran and salty paddler with it. Especially if you can find an old high float vest or something. Add an old Norse paddle as well.....
Have Fun,
Tom
The Challenger is an old Nolan Whitesell design, least that is what he claimed to me when I was looking for a new boat years ago. He said he designed it for slalom racing and recreational cruising on Class 2-3 water. Mine is heavy at a stout 60+ lbs for a 13'2" boat and is made out of royalex.
The Challenger is fast and tracks well on flat water. It has a hint of rocker to it. For the time period, 80's, it would have been considered a mild rocker. I ran the Lower Yough and Savage with it many times and usually stayed pretty dry. Never anything more than a bailing sponge or cut off detergent bottle was required to empty it. Clunking over the old Piedmont dam on the Savage fills it up pretty good though.... Surfs and spins reasonably well for its size. I had front and rear air bags probably 48". This left a nice gear storage area in front of the saddle. It would roll good however, when filled up with water you needed to find the shore line quick to empty it. A 13' boat weighs a lot when filled with water!
Keep playing with what you have got. Most importantly get it out on the river. It is a fine boat. Yeah it is dated and ugly; however, on the plus side you will look like a seriously veteran and salty paddler with it. Especially if you can find an old high float vest or something. Add an old Norse paddle as well.....
Have Fun,
Tom
times not a-wasting...
Keep fixing it up, hone those repair skills. Take it boating and enjoy it. From what you posted you sound like you know it will fit your current needs.
It will also give you an "in" when you paddle up to someone in the "hot" new design and ask them to test it out.
Once you figure out what you really want then sell old faithful if you must.
Their is always a used market for old OCs although you don't get a lot of cash for them.... but then one can never have too many boats!
Paul C.
It will also give you an "in" when you paddle up to someone in the "hot" new design and ask them to test it out.
Once you figure out what you really want then sell old faithful if you must.
Their is always a used market for old OCs although you don't get a lot of cash for them.... but then one can never have too many boats!
Paul C.Paul C.
Cboats Moderator
Official TOG Member (Team Old Guy)!
Cboats Moderator
Official TOG Member (Team Old Guy)!
Hehe...I'm familiar with "doing it on the cheap". My drysuit is a surplus Air Force Nomex flight suit. $80 + (2) 8 oz. tubes of Aquaseal and a jar of Cotol.
The funny thing about the Challenger pictured in the above link (driftjeffkuhnweb.jpg) is that it's literally my boat now. I bought it from Jeff.
Small world.
Thanks,
Phreon
The funny thing about the Challenger pictured in the above link (driftjeffkuhnweb.jpg) is that it's literally my boat now. I bought it from Jeff.
Small world.
Thanks,
Phreon
160 lbs should be no problem, a buddy at 200+ was happy with his... if memory serves me correct, the challenger is a 14 footer (not 4 meters), and should be AOK... will probably be better than a true whitewater boat, for the types of runs you listed...will not turn real well...but, will handle flat water, and class II - III well...might be a wee-bit tippy at first, but nothing like more recent canoes
I ran an easy local river the other day that usually provides a little fun in my Dagger Blackwater (not as much of a floating pumpkin seed style wreck 'yak as most) in the way of a few small holes and wave trains, but it was positively boring in the Challenger. Waves I'm used to "punching" in the kayak were inconsequential perturbations in the canoe. I probably could have taken a nap and let the boat float through the "rapids" without so much as feeling a drop of water.
Clearly this boat will be at home in bigger water and is challenging me (no pun intended) to improve my moving water skills. I'm usually a "figure it out as I go" kind of person, but am contemplating obtaining some instruction from Whitewater Warehouse in Dayton, OH before I do something stupid and blow out my shoulder. Any other suggestions about instructional resources for this Cincy, OH native? My stroke leaves much to be desired and I need to expand my skills toolkit.
BTW, this archived ad on Mohawk's site says the Challenger is Jensen design.
https://www.mohawkcanoes.com/oldads/challenger.jpg
Thanks,
Phreon
Clearly this boat will be at home in bigger water and is challenging me (no pun intended) to improve my moving water skills. I'm usually a "figure it out as I go" kind of person, but am contemplating obtaining some instruction from Whitewater Warehouse in Dayton, OH before I do something stupid and blow out my shoulder. Any other suggestions about instructional resources for this Cincy, OH native? My stroke leaves much to be desired and I need to expand my skills toolkit.
BTW, this archived ad on Mohawk's site says the Challenger is Jensen design.
https://www.mohawkcanoes.com/oldads/challenger.jpg
Thanks,
Phreon
Phreon,
What river did you run? I live in Lebanon and instruct for WWWH in Dayton. Would be glad to get together and paddle sometime. We have a couple of good training rivers w/in a 1.5-2 hour drive (Rocky Fork Creek/Paint Creek in OH and Elkhorn Creek in KY). There are several other OC and C1 paddlers in the area also. Send me a PM or you can also reach me though the Warehouse.
Jon
What river did you run? I live in Lebanon and instruct for WWWH in Dayton. Would be glad to get together and paddle sometime. We have a couple of good training rivers w/in a 1.5-2 hour drive (Rocky Fork Creek/Paint Creek in OH and Elkhorn Creek in KY). There are several other OC and C1 paddlers in the area also. Send me a PM or you can also reach me though the Warehouse.
Jon
Jon
DCCJON, check your inbox.
Thanks.